Squenix shenanigans

[Oppenheimer]

Now now, don't be arguing. If you two won't listen to each other's sides of the story then just give up, we want to have a positive atmosphere here.

[Waylander]

I don't know why people expected it to be up to par with a normal Final Fantasy game, because it wasn't suppose to be...it was a game released for those waiting for XII (when it was suppose to come out in a reasonable amount of time), but didn't want to get XI.


And people say they haven't done anything original for 20 years? It's because they've attempted to be original that so many people have complained. People would rather have them stay the same for 20 years (whoamg! the golden days of the SNES...my ass!) rather then try something else (see the complaining for VIII, X, and even though it's not out in the you.S. yet, some are already complaining aboug XII from a demo).

If it's not supposed to be a FF game, pick a different name and don't try to cash in on a franchise. Just out of curiosity what are these original titles? FF II-XII or Dragon Quest II-VIII? They have made some one-off games and some were good, but never original. None I can remember at least.

Komataguri, in the main I agree with what you say about SNES games. The games had to rock because you couldn't distract people with FMV every ten minutes. However a balance can be achieved on today's hardware. Sadly I think it's very infrequent but it does happen.

[daoster]

Ah, a fanboy.


Should have realized, can't ever have an intelligent conversation with fanboys.

Right, instead of arguing a point, like telling me why you don't believe FF IV has boring mechanics, or a lackluster story, you can always go always with the calling names route. But this is fresh, the first time I've been called a fanboy.

If it's not supposed to be a FF game, pick a different name and don't try to cash in on a franchise. Just out of curiosity what are these original titles? FF II-XII or Dragon Quest II-VIII? They have made some one-off games and some were good, but never original. None I can remember at least.

Why? Because you said so? This isn't anything new in the history of Square (or Enix for that matter), or hell, for any major franchise of a company. Why do companies make Final Fantasy Tactics, or Final Fantasy Legends, or Final Fantasy X2, or Mario Tennis, or Sonic Riders instead of completely original games? Well, because the name sells, and Square Enix, like all other companies, are a business, and are looking for a profit. The company decideds what can be called a Final Fantasy or not, not the fans.

And I never said that X2 wasn't an FF game, though perhaps it was because I didn't say it clearly enough. Final Fantasy X2 was never meant to replace a numbered Final Fantasy (I, III, IV, VI, etc.), it was meant to be a fun romp as the go between XI and XII (when XII was still expected to come out at a reasonable time). But it's certainly still a Final Fantasy (considering it's a sequel to a numbered Final Fantasy, and was even suggested to be a prequel to another Final Fantasy by the writer himself)

As for originality, you and I have differing ideas, obviously, as just about every Final Fantasy game since 1 has had a brand spanking new battle system. Coupled with new stories each game, that's a lot more than most RPG series can say.

And if that isn't enough for you...there's the Mana series, the SaGa series (which is all about originality, for better or for worse), the FM series, the Drakenguard series, Parasite Eve, Brave Fencer series, and a host of other "one game only" type deals.

[Waylander]

Daoster, you seem to be taking this rather personally. Are you pay rolled by Squenix? Calm down. Have a drink and relax this weekend. Maybe I'll try again on Monday.

Cheers.

[Lemmy Claypool]

Now now, Oppenheimer's already warned you all to play nice, so I suggest you all do so lest we hafta lock this puppy up.

[Jowy Atreides]

Famitsu reserves its perfect score (40/40) for the crème de la crème, so FFXII is probably good.

[daoster]

Daoster, you seem to be taking this rather personally. Are you pay rolled by Squenix? Calm down. Have a drink and relax this weekend. Maybe I'll try again on Monday.

Cheers.

Again, instead of a real retort, you attempt to insult me by telling me that I'm taking this personally (which I'm not...but the moment that you imply that I am taking it personally as some sort of insult, then I will take it personally) and tell me to calm down. What does that have to do with anything on what people were just discussing on this topic? As far as I can tell, nothing. I'll just leave it at that.

"Cheers", mate.

[Waylander]

Wow, it would seem I need to practice my written use of sarcasm. That was a joke, not an attack. Sorry it was misconstrued. As to original FF stories lets look at their mainstream games, post SNES.

The stories are different as are the character in context of some crazy Daemon trying to destroy the world.

FFVII Sephiroth turns into a Daemon and tries to destroy the world.
FFVIII Some lady comes out of nowhere and ruins an already convoluted, bad plot, turns into a Deamon and tries to destroy the world.
FFIX I own this game but can’t honestly remember playing it, I don’t think I could get into it. Maybe some else could let me know if there a was Daemon trying to destroy the world.
FFX This game was the exception; it was the whinny kids dad you were fighting against. Oh, wait. I remember now, he turns into a Daemon at the end and tries to destroy the world.

I don’t play online games, and can’t comment on FFXI

The characters all consist of kids; i.e. anyone younger than me (I’m an ancient 25), they are the natural choice in saving the world in times of danger. Hell I get the 17 year old next door to kill any bugs I find in my apartment. VII and X had some noticeable exceptions to this but in general the protagonist is always a teenage male in desperate need of a beverage and a girlfriend.

As to the battle systems I think the first game had a fighter, a black mage, a thief, and one other that I can’t recall. These may not be perfectly right btw. There are still just these categories with more names. Berserkers, Warriors, Ninjas and the like. Mages, much like GBA’s, come in a wide variety of stylish seasonal colors. There’s white, black, red, and blue; with fuchsia, lavender, and jade coming this fall.

Is Suikoden perfect? No, it has it’s own cliches that piss me off and idioms that it will never abandon. I do feel it offers more depth and content than the average Square enix game.

As to FFXII, I know nothing of the game save it’s toe-to-toe with Zelda for longest production period ever. But I bet it contains my previously mentioned 17 year old neighbor saving humanity from a Daemon trying to destroy the world.

Please, don’t take this too seriously.

[Jowy Atreides]

Most of FFXII's staff came from Vagrant Story, and not from Final Fantasy. In this light, a more fitting name would be "Vagrant Story II."

Agreed. Final Fantasy can definitely get repetitive.

[Waylander]

Despite all my ranting, I've played most of the FF games. I'll play FFXXII too, then judge it. Once it hit's $19.99 that is.

[Aetius]

Well if your looking for a square/enix game(s) with originality I would suggest taking a look at Valkyrie Profile 1&2. Of course I can't really predict how original 2 will be without it being released yet, but I played VP1 and it was highly original. I think that you MAY be able to get the PSX game cheaper than a PSP + the PSP version if you look hard enough.

Also as to the Final Fantasy Series... what should a game entitled "Final Fantasy" be about?? What I mean is that the name implies that the game will be a fantasy game, but I really dont think a name like "Final Fantasy" implies a certain kind of fantasy game, rather that over the course of nearly 20 years people have just come to expect it to be a certain kind of fantasy game.

[Waylander]

I don't see a PSP in my future and can't justify paying what I've seen VP go for. I'm sure it's great. I've heard nothing of the contrary. But unless it falls in my lap, I may just miss out.

I have never really thought much of the name, but it does kind of imply the grandest end all be all definitive adventure fantasy game ever. The title is actually pretty cool until you tack numbers to the end of it.

[taliefer]

i definatly prefer suikoden games over FF games, but i do have to say this...

i think of all RPGs taht use the teenage hero, FF games use it the least.

in ff4 cecil was most definatly not a teenager, and i dont believe any of the main chars were, except rydia and those twins.

in 6, there really isnt a main hero, but again, the majority of them all were definatly not teenagers.

in 7, cloud isnt a teenager.

in 8, you definatly have your teenage angst, which i believe is one of the reasons alot of people disliked it.

in 9, i dont *believe* zidane was a teenager, i could be wrong on this one tho.

in ten, i dont think tidus was a teenager, being a profesional athlete, but i am far from sure, he may have been. but he sure did act like one.


if anything, the suikoden series is far more guilty of using the "anyone over 20 is old and useless" rpg cliche than the final fantasy games. however, suikoden games also have far superior stories and story telling imo. as well as just being better games.


i plan on playing ff12, and will be disapointed if the main hero is a teenager, as all the ff games with teenage casts have been the least enjoyable of the series to me.

[Lemmy Claypool]

taliefer, I'm pretty sure Zidane is either 16 or 17 years old. The rest of your points are correct, though.

[daoster]

Wow, it would seem I need to practice my written use of sarcasm. That was a joke, not an attack. Sorry it was misconstrued. As to original FF stories lets look at their mainstream games, post SNES.

The stories are different as are the character in context of some crazy Daemon trying to destroy the world.

FFVII Sephiroth turns into a Daemon and tries to destroy the world.
FFVIII Some lady comes out of nowhere and ruins an already convoluted, bad plot, turns into a Deamon and tries to destroy the world.
FFIX I own this game but can’t honestly remember playing it, I don’t think I could get into it. Maybe some else could let me know if there a was Daemon trying to destroy the world.
FFX This game was the exception; it was the whinny kids dad you were fighting against. Oh, wait. I remember now, he turns into a Daemon at the end and tries to destroy the world.

I don’t play online games, and can’t comment on FFXI

The characters all consist of kids; i.e. anyone younger than me (I’m an ancient 25), they are the natural choice in saving the world in times of danger. Hell I get the 17 year old next door to kill any bugs I find in my apartment. VII and X had some noticeable exceptions to this but in general the protagonist is always a teenage male in desperate need of a beverage and a girlfriend.

As to the battle systems I think the first game had a fighter, a black mage, a thief, and one other that I can’t recall. These may not be perfectly right btw. There are still just these categories with more names. Berserkers, Warriors, Ninjas and the like. Mages, much like GBA’s, come in a wide variety of stylish seasonal colors. There’s white, black, red, and blue; with fuchsia, lavender, and jade coming this fall.

1. When you over generalize stories like that, then of course it's going to be similar. Hell, I can do the same for Suikoden games:
I: You must build an army to stop an opressive regime.
II: You must build an army to stop an oppresive regime
III: Well, this is the exception, but there's an army involved.
IV: You must build an army to stop an oppresive regime!
V: You must build an army to stop an oppresive regime.
I'm just going to take a stab at it, but:
VI: You must build an army to stop an oppresive regime!

Of course, you and I know that each story for each Suikoden game aren't exactly the same, but when you start to over generalize, and this goes beyond video games, then of course they'll all run together.

And as for Character ages, only Final Fantasy VIII and IX had a cast that was predominantly teen (VIII was the only one to have all characters under 20, unless you count Laguna and co.)

As for battle system, using those your logic, then the majority of RPGs from the beginning of time haven't really been changing at all! Since (and correct me if I'm wrong), all those jobs are from DnD anyways, and the majority of RPGs console or otherwise, all base characters off these "classes"!