Hugo wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jowy have the True Beast Rune at the same time that he had his half true sword rune. I thought it wasn't possible to have two true runes. I read somewhere on the forum that Jowys rune supressed the nature of the beast rune and it was killing him or something. Can someone elaborate on this.
Spoiler, i think...
The sword rune and the shield rune are half of one true rune, the rune of begining, therefore he is able to hold the best rune and used the power of the sword rune(still quite a powerful rune in itself being half of a true rune) to hold back the power of the beast rune.
Hugo wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jowy have the True Beast Rune at the same time that he had his half true sword rune. I thought it wasn't possible to have two true runes. I read somewhere on the forum that Jowys rune supressed the nature of the beast rune and it was killing him or something. Can someone elaborate on this.
Spoiler, i think...
The sword rune and the shield rune are half of one true rune, the rune of begining, therefore he is able to hold the best rune and used the power of the sword rune(still quite a powerful rune in itself being half of a true rune) to hold back the power of the beast rune.
Does this explain why Windy was searching for the Soul Eater, would she have been able to use it along with her half of the Gate rune. I don't want speculation on this, I would rather see some evidence to both theories. And didn't Crowley discover a way to use more than one true rune.
Crowley was trying to attain True Rune power without the use of a True Rune. He did, however, have 100 Runes attatched to his body.
It's a different situation with Windy. Her half of the Gate Rune is a True Rune while the Black Sword Rune isn't a True Rune, so Windy would've discovered a way to hold two true runes, which she did in theory. We simply did not get to see if she could actually do it or not... you know, the whole Gate Rune wars thing leading to her indirect defeat.
Jowy just said he was holding back the power of the Beast Rune. We see the Beast Rune lying dormant in the floor of L'renouille Castle, so he did not have the Beast Rune; he was only holding it back with his Black Sword
Rune.
The information about Crowley having 100 runes on his body is not information from Konami, but is information from Crowley himself. Although he does not seem the type to lie he could be exaggerating.
There isn't really any evidence either way to say whether or not Windy would've been able to use the Soul Eater had she actually attained it. Although, Windy desperately searching for it for hundreds of years seems pretty pointless if she can't use two True Runes.
How are the the Black Sword rune and Bright shield Rune not true runes. They both are halves of the Rune of the Beginning, just like Windy and Leknaat have halves of the Gate Rune. Do you have any evidence of this. Are you saying that Jowy and Hero2 are not ageless.
Yeah, the Bright Shield and Black Sword Runes are not True Runes; they also do not grant agelessness. The reasoning most fans use is that the Rune of Beginning starts out in seperated form while the Gate Rune was once a full True Rune, but was forcibly seperated.
There is a really good explaination on exactly how the gate runes and sword and shield are different. It's buried somewhere in this forum, but I think I remember enough about it to not have to look it up. Credit to SARSadmin.
It takes flour and eggs to bake a cookie. Once that cookie is made, it can be split in half and returned to whole very easily, but almost impossible to return into four and eggs. Wendy's rune is like half of a cookie. Sheild and Sword are like flour and eggs. Gate Rune and Rune of Beginning are the whole cookies.
Hope that makes sense
Thanks, but that's not really an official answer with the evidence to back it up. The rune of the beginning was once whole. I'm sure of that, play through Suikoden 2 again to get a quote. I need proof of this. Also did Jowy actually control the Beast Rune or did it just act itself and Jowy used the Black sword rune to hold back its incarnations. You know that Harmonia also lost control of it.
Hugo wrote:Thanks, but that's not really an official answer with the evidence to back it up. The rune of the beginning was once whole. I'm sure of that, play through Suikoden 2 again to get a quote. I need proof of this. Also did Jowy actually control the Beast Rune or did it just act itself and Jowy used the Black sword rune to hold back its incarnations. You know that Harmonia also lost control of it.
Nope, the 2 halfes where never one.And in official timeline they won't until Riou or Jowy dies cause the Reconsiliation(sp?) ending is the official one.The reason why people thought they where True Runes is because the translation states that they are "1 of the 27 True Runes" but I think someone stated that they are NOT.Konami has a way of changing his mind....
EDIT: Btw this isn't really the place to discuss this.
This is everything relevent that a search for the words Shield and gate pulled up. I'm still not sure what exactly you need answered, but hopefully you'll get an answer somewhere in all this. Gonna take a lot of reading, though.
Here's something from the GameFAQs' topic "Questions for Blue Moon," which is still intact at http://www.suikox.com
SARSadmin wrote:Why is it when The Rune of Beginning is split, Riou and Jowy don't get immortality, yet Leeknat and Windy with two aspects of the same rune do?
How does a rune split anyway?
Is it possible that the two gate runes are two seperate true runes?
How it is explained by Konami is that the Black Sword and Bright Shield runes are not "halves" of the Beginning Rune, but instead components of the Beginning Rune. These two runes are completely dissimilar in property, and exist in that form ab originae. In their separate forms, they are not true runes.
The Gate Rune, on the other hand, was originally a whole rune. It was forcibly split by Windy and Leknaat using some secret method we have no clue about. The resulting halves of the Gate Rune have identical powers, and retain true rune properties but it's power is weaker than a full true rune. Regardless, it provides agelessness.
We can compare this with making coffee. To make coffee, you need ground coffee beans and hot water. Once you mix the two together, you get coffee. If take half of that coffee away--pour half of it into another cup, you just get two 1/2 cups of coffee. You don't get hot water and ground coffee.
That's the difference between the Gate Rune and the Rune of the Beginning. The Gate Rune is already finished coffee, so splitting it only creates two identical runes. The Rune of the Beginning is a combination of the Black Sword Rune (ground coffee) and Bright Shield Rune (hot water). Thus, if the Rune of the Beginning is ever split by a powerful sorcerer, you'd get halves of the Rune of the Beginning instead of the Black Sword and the Bright Shield rune.
miggypig wrote:Is Jowy even an SoD? I mean look at his gameplay story. You use him twice and he tries to kill you. That doesn't sound so Star of Destiny like to me.
While as far as we know Jowy is not a Star, I think its important to note that being a Star does not require you to be inherently "good." Look at all the Stars throughout the Suikoden universe that had questionable pasts, and look at the small group of Stars in Suikoden III that were your enemy.
Jowy Atreides wrote:Here's something from the GameFAQs' topic "Questions for Blue Moon," which is still intact at http://www.suikox.com
SARSadmin wrote:Why is it when The Rune of Beginning is split, Riou and Jowy don't get immortality, yet Leeknat and Windy with two aspects of the same rune do?
How does a rune split anyway?
Is it possible that the two gate runes are two seperate true runes?
How it is explained by Konami is that the Black Sword and Bright Shield runes are not "halves" of the Beginning Rune, but instead components of the Beginning Rune. These two runes are completely dissimilar in property, and exist in that form ab originae. In their separate forms, they are not true runes.
The Gate Rune, on the other hand, was originally a whole rune. It was forcibly split by Windy and Leknaat using some secret method we have no clue about. The resulting halves of the Gate Rune have identical powers, and retain true rune properties but it's power is weaker than a full true rune. Regardless, it provides agelessness.
We can compare this with making coffee. To make coffee, you need ground coffee beans and hot water. Once you mix the two together, you get coffee. If take half of that coffee away--pour half of it into another cup, you just get two 1/2 cups of coffee. You don't get hot water and ground coffee.
That's the difference between the Gate Rune and the Rune of the Beginning. The Gate Rune is already finished coffee, so splitting it only creates two identical runes. The Rune of the Beginning is a combination of the Black Sword Rune (ground coffee) and Bright Shield Rune (hot water). Thus, if the Rune of the Beginning is ever split by a powerful sorcerer, you'd get halves of the Rune of the Beginning instead of the Black Sword and the Bright Shield rune.
I get what you're saying with that, but that still leaves one thing. How is it possible that it keeps forming together and splitting apart like it does. If you can't get coffee grounds and water back from coffee, then how does the true rune reform after being split, or split after reforming? You're trying to use the scientific physical/chemical change parallel, but it still doesn't jive with me...
Besides, even Yuber calls Riou a "True Rune bearer...an accursed child..." That's gotta mean something.
