Dumb Luc & Yuber Theory

Post by **Vextor** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:45 pm

At Greenhill he states that Riou's rune is the "source of my hatred... source of my nightmares..." at least in the Japanese version.

Black Fang · Post by **Black Fang** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:18 am

Hmm, it is different than in PAL. He says something along those lines but not as brutal and hating. I think he says "it is the source of YOUR hatred/sadness/troubles", or something like that.

So he hates the Bright Shield Rune. I still find it funny that from this people derive he hates all true runes as bright shield ain't even a true rune heh.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:21 am

He does hate all True Runes. Why would he dislike just the Bright Shield Rune? It's never done anything to him.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:34 pm

Well, if the Bright Shield is the component of the Rune of Beginning, which symbolizes the Sword and Shield which gave birth to all True Runes, persay, then it is definitely the main reason for his hatred. Yuber hates True Runes and the Bright Shield symbolizes a part of the "mother" of all the True Runes. It IS the object that originated Yuber's hatred. There are other speculations, but I think that best describes why he makes that statement.

Black Fang · Post by **Black Fang** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:47 pm

Jowy Atreides wrote:He does hate all True Runes. Why would he dislike just the Bright Shield Rune? It's never done anything to him.

All that is known of Bright Shield Rune is that its owners included Genkaku and Riou and that it is an aspect of the rune of the beginning. There is still no info on Yuber not having prior contact with the rune.

demon eye wrote:Yuber hates True Runes and the Bright Shield symbolizes a part of the "mother" of all the True Runes.

That doesn't fit in as the Rune of the Beginning is just a name of the rune. In reality it is the same as every other true rune. It isn't the one that started it all. That was the Sword and the Shield. Besides, it doesn't make sense him hating all true runes yet bearing one which he gladly overuses.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:00 pm

Just use common sense. How could Yuber possibly have any hatred towards just the Bright Shield Rune?

Yuber having any prior negative contact with Bright Shield, Genkaku, Riou, Han, Black Sword, or anything else associated with Bright Shield is just completely ridiculous.

Just because he has a True Rune means next to nothing about his hatred of them. Since it's not known how he acquired the Eightfold Rune we can't really say anything about that, since it may have been against his will.

If it was against his will and he truly does hate it (for unknown reasons), I still don't see why he wouldn't use the power anyways.

Edit: For the sake of everyone's sanity let's just say that he only hates the Bright Shield Rune, although it is highly likely that it branches out to every True Rune for seemingly unknown reasons.

Please don't argue this point endlessly, as it's just opinion.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:48 pm

That doesn't fit in as the Rune of the Beginning is just a name of the rune. In reality it is the same as every other true rune. It isn't the one that started it all. That was the Sword and the Shield. Besides, it doesn't make sense him hating all true runes yet bearing one which he gladly overuses.

True, the Rune of Beginning is just the name of a True Rune, but it is clearly not just a "normal" True Rune. It is stated that when the component parts of the Rune of Beginning becomes whole it has the power to end all wars...end all wars. That is not normal by any means.

It is stated that the Bright Shield Rune and Black Sword Rune are used to symbolize the Sword and Shield of legend. Even if both of those runes are not the "true" Sword and Shield, they symbolize the creators of the very essence of Yuber's hatred. Anyway you look at it, Bright Shield and Black Sword symbolize the epic battle that started creation. That could be the only reason that Yuber states he hates the Bright Shield Rune which is not even a True Rune.

Use common sense?? I don't know how that's really possible seeing as we know little about Yuber as it is. And does it state that Yuber just bears hatred for the Bright Shield Rune? I think it is confirmed that Yuber hates each and every one of the True Runes, not excluding the one he bears.
The fact of the matter is that the Bright Shield Rune does symbolize a part of the origin of what can be considered his "burden".

Yuber makes it very clear that he is not a fan of his True Rune when he states, why can't I be free of this burden..or something like that when he is defeated in the last battle we fight against him in Suikoden 3. So, I think that shows he not only hates the Bright Shield but his True Rune, as well.

Harukaze · Post by **Harukaze** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 8:32 pm

If Yuber is such a servant of Chaos, is it not possible then that Bright Shield, representing Shield, is a representation of Order and thus almost an incarnate focus of his greatest hatred?

So despite not being a True Rune, it is possible that Yuber bears this Rune a special personal hatred above and beyond that of the full True Runes.

Black Fang · Post by **Black Fang** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:02 pm

Jowy Atreides wrote:Just use common sense. How could Yuber possibly have any hatred towards just the Bright Shield Rune?

Wth? Not much is known about Yuber. For all we know he could have had a prior battle with an owner of the Bright Shield Rune and lost. There are many scenarios that could have happened to make him hate the Bright Shield Rune.

Jowy Atreides wrote:Yuber having any prior negative contact with Bright Shield, Genkaku, Riou, Han, Black Sword, or anything else associated with Bright Shield is just completely ridiculous.

Listen to yourself. You state that it is ridicilous without any evidence and talk to me about common sense. Yuber has a true rune and as far as we know he is AT LEAST 300 years old as he was a part of the trio that destroyed Ted's village back then. Little is known about Genkaku, and nothing is known if the two ever ran into eachother. Even if that is not the case Yuber has at least another 200+ years in which he could have contacted the Bright Shield Rune. I'm not saying that he definately only hates Bright Shield. My statement was that people make an ASSUMPTION that he hates all the runes, and that assumption is being passed around as a fact on a few forums.

Jowy Atreides wrote:Since it's not known how he acquired the Eightfold Rune we can't really say anything about that, since it may have been against his will.

Exactlly, which is why I made that comment about him happily using it. It is without doubt that users of True Runes suffer in one way or another. Hence Yuber has two reasons not to use it. The first is his pure hatered for it and the second would be the suffering it causes him.

demon eye wrote:True, the Rune of Beginning is just the name of a True Rune, but it is clearly not just a "normal" True Rune. It is stated that when the component parts of the Rune of Beginning becomes whole it has the power to end all wars...end all wars. That is not normal by any means.

Tis true, but you gotta look at it from the point of other runes too though. Dragon Rune makes all Dragons live (a whole species), same with Blue Moon Rune and then you have the Rune of Change which promises the perfect land. I agree that the rune of beginning seems special and is in many ways, but it seems to me that it is somewhat of a wannabe when it comes to the sword and shield. Mind you I can see your point about Yubs hating those two runes.

demon eye wrote:I think it is confirmed that Yuber hates each and every one of the True Runes, not excluding the one he bears.

WHERE?!?!?! If we could prove that this was official, that would end this whole argument. If you can find the official info, just say where you got it from.

demon eye wrote:Yuber makes it very clear that he is not a fan of his True Rune when he states, why can't I be free of this burden..or something like that when he is defeated in the last battle we fight against him in Suikoden 3. So, I think that shows he not only hates the Bright Shield but his True Rune, as well.

Ok so this makes it two runes, and further proves my previous argument about him overusing his rune. He apparently sees it as a burden (kinda like Tir and the Souleater) but is seen using it far more often. So his apperent hate for his rune comes from his suffering.

Harukaze wrote:If Yuber is such a servant of Chaos, is it not possible then that Bright Shield, representing Shield, is a representation of Order and thus almost an incarnate focus of his greatest hatred?

Tis very possible, but has there been official source that he is a servant of Chaos? His rune has something to do with Chaos and could be causing him pain when it face to face with a rune of order so that could be it, but then again we know too little to even try and assume.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 10:16 pm

Oh well, I was wrong in assuming that he hates all True Runes but I don't see how something could've happened to him that would've made him hate just the Bright Shield Rune and nothing else.

His hatred more than likely stems from the fact that he cannot die pridefully with a True Rune, but of course I cannot prove this.

Anyways, I don't want to corrupt this thread any further with baseless theories so I'll just stop, and hopefully others will too.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:18 pm

This is called the Dumb Luc & Yuber thread, correct? There is no problem with baseless theories here as it all is speculation. And I made the mistake of assuming he hates all True Runes, as well. I haven't found evidence support that, so I'll have to say it's baseless for now.

Tis true, but you gotta look at it from the point of other runes too though. Dragon Rune makes all Dragons live (a whole species), same with Blue Moon Rune and then you have the Rune of Change which promises the perfect land. I agree that the rune of beginning seems special and is in many ways, but it seems to me that it is somewhat of a wannabe when it comes to the sword and shield. Mind you I can see your point about Yubs hating those two runes.

I totally agree with your statement that the Bright Shield and Black Sword appears to be wannabe Sword and Shield and that's why I stated that they symbolize them. Like I said, I totally agree with you on that point.

As for support for the statement that Yuber hates all True Runes, all of Yuber's prior involvements (that we have been privy to) shows that Yuber tends to get involved in conflicts that revolve around the possible destruction of individuals who bear True Runes. Maybe Yuber is seeking a way to free himself from his bond with his True Rune, or Yuber has something against the True Runes themselves. Of course, we can't be sure either way just yet.

Black Fang · Post by **Black Fang** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:03 am

I had another LONG post about Yuber/Hikusaak and Pessy, that got way into it.

I kinda figured that Yuber could possibly be Hikusaak himself and I had a lot of evidence to back it up (it seemed to fit in), but in the end it just started coming out a lil corny, so I stoped with the theory (which is all it was anyways). You can read up on it in a Yuber/Pesmerga thread on here I think, but I still stand by my comment that Hikusaak is somehow involved with Yuber and Pez, as he is the only one thus far with the knowledge of cloning (asides from the Sindar, who are by now extinct).

The whole Hikusak/Yuber scenario basically was about both of them trying to collect (or gain knowledge) of the true runes. The Beast Rune escaped to Highland so prior knowledge of the runes is needed in order to keep control over them.

Every one of the past True Rune employers Yuber had seems to have died....so I kinda figured he was actually smarter than he lets on and in some way connected to Hikusaak if not being Hikusaak himself.

Glad that point about him hating runes is cleared up not to be a fact now. All I was after.

Black Fang · Post by **Black Fang** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:05 pm

You mean Yuber??? He never faced of with the Beast Rune. If you wanna have runes Yuber missed, there are also Windy's and Barbadossa's Runes as well as Neclord's which he could have taken at just about any point. Thus going back to my theory that he is possibly only gathering info on how to control the true runes and probably working for Harmonia.

flame_champ · Post by **flame_champ** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:50 pm

I'm sorry but I just have to argue with your yuber/hikusaak theory. Sasarai, and Luc are both clones of Hikusaak, right? In S3 Luc says that he is a human clone, therefore, Hikusaak has to be human too, as we all know Yuber is not a human.