Character starting levels

A forum to ask people who have played the games about gameplay questions.
Post Reply
srd_27
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:31 pm

Character starting levels

Post by srd_27 »

Some optional character's starting levels are based on the "average party level" value. This value can be checked by looking at the monster levels on Obel Ruins.
Could be useful to recruit these on late game so they'll immediately be at a high level.

Also I don't know how the "average party level" is actually calculated. I'm guessing it's the average of X amount of highest level characters, so the unused low-level characters doesn't affect the "average party level" value.

Optional characters:

Rita: 1
Maxine: 6
Pablo: 5
Rene: 1
Eugene: 8
Nalleo: 7
Dario: 7
Hervey: 4
Sigurd: 3
Cedric: +1
Rachel: -2
Katarina: +3
Keneth: +3

Tal: 12
Karl: +5
Nalkul: +2
Champo: +1
Noah: +0
Charlemagne: +1 *
Reinbach: +1 *

Yu: 10
Mitsuba: +4
Reinhold: +4 (Mitsuba's starting level) **

Jeane: 16
Kate: +2
Hero IV: +2

Snowe: 1 (yes, level 1...)
Mercenaries: 30

* Reinbach & Charlemagne's starting level are based on Charlemagne's level during the Rose Crest fight. If your average party level changes after the Rose Crest fight (and before visiting Middleport Inn), Reinbach & Charlemagne's starting level will not change.

** Reinhold's level is based on Mitsuba's original level when she's recruited. If Mitsuba's levelled up or your average party level changes before Reinhold is recruited, Reinhold's starting level will not change.

Story characters:

Kyril: 1
Andarc: 2
Seneca: 2
Akaghi: 8
Mizuki: 8
Kika: 8
Trishtan: 8
Flare: 8
Gary: 10
Ema: 9
Ameria: 8
Axel: 8
Carrie: 9
Millay: 9
Jeremy: 9
Gretchen: 8
Wendel: 8
Corselia: 16
Coop: 15
Simeon: 26
Frederica: 27
Paula: 27
Jewel: 27
Selma: 27
Lino: 31
Roget: 32
Busk: 30
Ornela: 30
Lalacle: 1
Last edited by srd_27 on Sat Jan 20, 2024 10:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
Antimatzist
Posts: 2770
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:48 am
Location: Germany, yeah baby
Contact:

Re: Character starting levels

Post by Antimatzist »

I was just wondering about that! The calculation of that "average" party level has always been driving me nuts. I am currently in a re-run of the game and in the middle of Obel ruins, so I might check this. I think Karl destroyed my party average with that +5 bonus, which makes the ruins a bit harder than necessary ...
srd_27
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:31 pm

Re: Character starting levels

Post by srd_27 »

Antimatzist wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:37 am I was just wondering about that! The calculation of that "average" party level has always been driving me nuts. I am currently in a re-run of the game and in the middle of Obel ruins, so I might check this. I think Karl destroyed my party average with that +5 bonus, which makes the ruins a bit harder than necessary ...
Yes, I also noticed the Obel monster levels got increased immediately after I recruited Karl.

I did an NG+ playthrough where most of the enemy kills are done using Blazing Wall & Heavenly Thunder. My Andarc & Corselia's levels are a lot higher than almost everybody else. Before I started my recruiting spree, Andarc & Corselia are at around level 36 while the Obel monster level is only at level 29/30, with Kyril at level 27 and a lot of others are well below that.

Also another fun fact. Doing the Lazlo recruit at high level made him look so weak, the AI Lazlo character doesn't have Punishment Magic skill. Level 30+ Lazlo using the spell on level 30+ Crab will only deal 1 damage.
Wolkendrache
Forum Moderator
Posts: 869
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: Character starting levels

Post by Wolkendrache »

Interesting, I never noticed the character levels based on that average, only the Obel ruins enemy levels.

Btw, iirc the enemy levels in the Obel ruins will increase the deeper you go. I overflew the first 5 levels using a giant owl so my levels didn’t increase until the chambers.

I always assumed (but never tested) that the enemies in Obel ruins Lv 1 are based on the 8 highest level characters but I‘m not sure about the number.
The formula for the Obel ruins enemies would be „average of X amount of highest level characters + Y“

Y is higher for enemies in later stages, dragons might have a +6 or so. Moreover, Y might have random factor in later stages, I don't remember. (To check this, make notes of enemy levels in Obel ruins Lv4 or Lv5. If you run into the same configuration later, do the enemy levels have the same proportions than before, or for example is wind spirit now a level higher than earth spirit when it was lower before?)
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan
srd_27
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:31 pm

Re: Character starting levels

Post by srd_27 »

Wolkendrache wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:48 am Interesting, I never noticed the character levels based on that average, only the Obel ruins enemy levels.

Btw, iirc the enemy levels in the Obel ruins will increase the deeper you go. I overflew the first 5 levels using a giant owl so my levels didn’t increase until the chambers.

I always assumed (but never tested) that the enemies in Obel ruins Lv 1 are based on the 8 highest level characters but I‘m not sure about the number.
The formula for the Obel ruins enemies would be „average of X amount of highest level characters + Y“

Y is higher for enemies in later stages, dragons might have a +6 or so. Moreover, Y might have random factor in later stages, I don't remember. (To check this, make notes of enemy levels in Obel ruins Lv4 or Lv5. If you run into the same configuration later, do the enemy levels have the same proportions than before, or for example is wind spirit now a level higher than earth spirit when it was lower before?)
Yes, enemy levels does get higher on deeper Obel ruins. I'm guessing this Y value is fixed depending on what configuration you get, but I never properly checked it yet.

On the optional recruit battles, it seems every ally or enemy's +Y values are fixed as well. I've tried these battles on few different starting levels to confirm the character starting level values.
Wolkendrache
Forum Moderator
Posts: 869
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 2:43 pm

Re: Character starting levels

Post by Wolkendrache »

I see, I wasn’t aware of that because I do most optional battles asap except for the Obel ruins. So does that mean enemy levels in all story and monster hunting battles are fixed, whereas in all other optional battles (Obel, quests, gossip etc) they’re progressing?
"Within the four seas, all men are brothers" Shuihu Zhuan
srd_27
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:31 pm

Re: Character starting levels

Post by srd_27 »

Wolkendrache wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 3:23 am I see, I wasn’t aware of that because I do most optional battles asap except for the Obel ruins. So does that mean enemy levels in all story and monster hunting battles are fixed, whereas in all other optional battles (Obel, quests, gossip etc) they’re progressing?
Story battles and Simeon's side quest is fixed.
Monster hunts are based on the average level as well, but there's a level cap so you can't grind to level 50 with these.
All other optional battles seems to have no level cap, although I haven't tried the recruit battles above level 40s.
Antimatzist
Posts: 2770
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:48 am
Location: Germany, yeah baby
Contact:

Re: Character starting levels

Post by Antimatzist »

After playing around with the party level, I found that Reinhold's level does not depend on the party level. i think he just joins at Mitsuba's level. I was too lazy to level her up to confirm this, but I think it's true.
srd_27
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:31 pm

Re: Character starting levels

Post by srd_27 »

Antimatzist wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:08 am After playing around with the party level, I found that Reinhold's level does not depend on the party level. i think he just joins at Mitsuba's level. I was too lazy to level her up to confirm this, but I think it's true.
What I've found is that Reinhold's level is based on Mitsuba's level during the duel. If Mitsuba's levelled up before you recruit Reinhold, then Reinhold will still have Mitsuba's original level (which will be lower than current Mitsuba's level). And yes, average party level doesn't matter anymore for Reinhold's level.

Similary with Reinbach & Charlemagne, their starting level is based on what Charlemagne's level is during the Rose Crest fight. If your average party level changed after the Rose Crest fight, but before going to Middleport Inn to recruit them, then it won't change Reinbach & Charlemagne's starting level.

I'll update the starting post above with these info.
Antimatzist
Posts: 2770
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:48 am
Location: Germany, yeah baby
Contact:

Re: Character starting levels

Post by Antimatzist »

I love how weirdly specific that is. Like, who would ever not directly recruit Reinhold?
srd_27
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:31 pm

Re: Character starting levels

Post by srd_27 »

Antimatzist wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 7:42 am I love how weirdly specific that is. Like, who would ever not directly recruit Reinhold?
Thinking about this again, I think it makes sense why Reinhold & Reinbach have this weird behaviour.

For all the characters with variable levels, they're the ones who appeared in combat during the recruitment event. So, Reinhold & Reinbach's levels also follows this behaviour, where their levels are calculated during the recruitment combat alongside their pair (Mitsuba & Charlemagne), instead of during the actual recruitment.

The ones who doesn't follow this pattern are the two recruits in Razril, Rita and Snowe. They joined at level 1 even though they will appear in their recruitment combat based on the average party level.
I wonder if this is simply an oversight from the devs. And it doesn't get noticed by the playtesters because Rita is normally recruited early on, so it might seem natural for her to join at level 1.
Post Reply