First of all, no one is "worshipping" anyone. If you read my previous posts, you could obviously see that. And obviously I know what I'm arguing "for", as you state. The "truth", as you say, is that Luc claims to see a vision of a possible fate of the Suikoworld. SARSadmin cleared things up when he stated that the Genso Shinyo stated that Luc in fact actually knew the fate of the world and it was order, hence I stated my theory was wrong. If you couldn't follow the scenario I was laying out, then I apologize. Maybe I should draw little diagrams and stick men next time.
Seriously though, I don't see what was so hard to understand. I stated that Leknaat worked for balance and that her goals also coincided with the natural order of fate. I "believed" fate was destined to find harmony between chaos and order, but I was found to be wrong due to the reasons I have previously stated. That's the end of that discussion. I stated I was wrong and retracted any validity to the statements made pertaining to that subject.
Umm, I think you just rehashed the point I was trying to make with the whole canvass thing. I don't know if you were trying to contradict or support me there..oh well.
Seriously! I can worship the creators of the game as Suikoden gods! Let me get out my candles and prepare me some sacrifices! Any live chickens or virgins running around? LOL! I understand the point you are making. Please read my last post again and you will see that I was just showing respect to SARSadmin. No worhsipping, pedestals or live sacrifices needed.
And unfortunately sometimes I have to try, but not often.
Saying that he was a mere human was a remark made in jest meant to lighten up the situation. Whew! I guess the clearly implied sarcasm was way off on that one. I still can't understand where the worshipping aspect came from. I guess if I say the great Ghandi or the great Michael Jordan or the great pig, I worship them all, too?? Please don't take things so literally.
And the Shield equalling Chaos and Sword equalling Order comes from prior statements made by SARSadmin and you can find references to this throughout the plot of Suikoden 3. I think most individuals look at Chaos as a bad thing, but it's not necessarily so. Chaos allows for growth and development, where Order leaves everything stagnant..well, at least that's what they leave us to believe based on Luc's vision. Now, don't go and say I stated that Shield equals good and Sword equals bad either. Both Order and Chaos each have their own virtues.
Leknaat obviously has some information about fate and the future, but there is no evidence she can or cannot for that matter change the course of events to come. Riou did it at the end of the Dunan Unification Wars, so it wouldn't sound too improbable for Leknaat being capable of changing the path of fate.
Point taken. Note that I never stated she can or cannot change fate. I merely suggested that the vision Luc saw was not the natural order of fate, and that Leknaat worked for fate which equates to harmony between order and chaos.
This quote,
"This is our future...at least one of them"
actually helps prove my point.
Once again, she doesn't CONTROL fate. Riou and Jowy were destined to play those roles out, she just showed them the way. In any case, if Riou and Jowy didn't kill Luca Blight, far more people would have died so your point is extremely arguable.
Again I will state that I never said Leknaat controlled fate. I stated that I believes she works for fate which coincides with her title as Keeper of Balance. Also, you didn't get my point at all. The poster said that Leknaat didn't help Luc because his plan would have led to the deaths of millions.
I just stated that if Leknaat considered the loss of lives as a factor, then she would probably not have helped Tir or Riou either. Hell, she could have left Barbarossa in charge. Sure, Windy would have eventually gotten then the Soul Eater and invaded Harmonia to get her revenge and thousands could have died, but what is the difference between the thousands that died during the Gate Rune War and the potential lives that could have been lost if Windy got her wishes? Or what is the difference between the thousands and thousands of lives lost during the Dunan Unification War that Leknaat aided Riou with and the thousands upon thousand lives that could have been potentially lost if Luca suceeded in doing what he planned?
Are you saying that lives lost for a benevolent cause are any different than lives loss for a cruel cause? If that is true then, and I'm sorry to say this, your views are similar to that of Hitler's. Recall that Hitler's cause was believed to be a benevolent one, or at least that is what he believed. Oh, not to mention that Luca's motives were for what he believed to be the general "good" of Highland. I'm just saying that Leknaat can't justify who she helps based on how many lives would be lost.
Why do you assume this? Maybe it wasn't her primary motive for stopping Luc because she does have history with Luc but there is ABSOLUTELY no evidence she doesn't consider the loss of human life. I respect your arguments but try and keep the facts as they are and if you assume something don't use such a strong statement.
I respect your arguments, as well. Therefore, I will tell you why I made such a strong statement which is not really an assumption at all. I stated that because it is obviously clear. Leknaat can discern visions dealing with fate, but can't see everything clearly. My statement goes along with facts. If Leknaat knew what Luc was planning and had no idea whether he would fail or not, then it would be her duty to prevent Luc from completing his goals. I'm just stating that her decision to "do nothing" was negligent on her part.
Leknaat could foresee the destruction and loss of lives necessary for Tir and Riou to complete their goals and she stepped right in to do her duty. Why not do the same in the situation with Luc? She decided that she would let Luc determine his own fate and this could have led to the deaths of millions. So, tell me where does this not show that Leknaat's motives do not coincide with rescuing lives? The statement was used to allow for us all to think out of the box and realize that Leknaat may in fact only have the interest of herself in mind.
So, you tell me to use fact, but I ask where does it state that Leknaat is Mother Teresa and considered the lives of those who were sacrificed in her efforts? I'm not saying that Leknaat is inhuman. I was just stating that lives lost is lives lost no matter if they were for a noble cause or not and that Leknaat has shown us that she will do whatever was necessary to keep the balance. Her actions in Suikoden 3 are no different.
The loss of lives was not her motive for not stopping Luc because if she considered how many lives he would trample in order to complete his goals she would have done anything in her power to stop him and she didn't. Period. I just choose to not be so literal in my thought process and, as you stated, use facts. The facts have spoken and we have our own opinions and interpretations of them. This is just my interpretation of them.
Of course, her role as Keeper of Balance is important. I was typing down what I was thinking in my head based on another theory I had based on whether or not Leknaat saw the same vision Luc saw. Sorry about that.
And I will clear up the statement about Fate and Destiny. Based on the information stated by SARSadmin from the Genso Shinyo article, Luc saw how the world would end and that fate led to order, correct? So, therefore, we can say that Fate is inclined to move towards order if we take that evidence as truth.
Therefore, we need a force that seeks to balance the imbalance made by Fate. We need a force to oppose it. The main characters of each Suikoden game come from the Stars of Destiny. I suggest that they are the opposing force moving against Fate. Therefore, I define Fate as Order and Destiny as Chaos. *takes a deep breath and welcomes all challengers*
Note: I took your suggestion and broke things into paragraphs. I hope this is easier to read and I hope people will actually get to the end of this long diatribe before growing bored with it and exiting.