Chinchironin & Rune Elemental resistance mechanics.

A forum to ask questions if you are stuck in the The Gate Rune Wars; or wish for more clarity on the gameplay systems.
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Z3R01337
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:06 am

Chinchironin & Rune Elemental resistance mechanics.

Post by Z3R01337 »

Found some mechanics a while ago, figured I'd post them.

Chinchironin
TLDR: Cursor position matters a lot, aim for the middle of the bowl.

A chinchironin roll is determined by 3 variables.
  1. RNG
  2. Cursor Position
  3. "RNG Salt"
1st 2 are somewhat self-explanatory, the RNG Salt is a 2 byte value at 0x1B9B8C. On a new game it's set to 0, and whenever you save or load it gets set to IGT down to current frame count. It's why in the speedrun if we want to manipulate Chinchironin we can't save.

When determining a roll, the game goes through a sequence of checks as follows:
  1. isTripleWin
  2. isTripleLose
  3. isDoubleWin
  4. isDoubleLose
  5. isPiss
  6. standardRoll.
For all but standardRoll it uses the 3 variables listed above to determine each condition. Standard roll ignores cursor position. Cursor position plays a BIG role in these, to the point where good results are impossible with bad cursor position and vice versa. It goes through each check, and if it meets one that will be the result. The exception to this is if Tai Ho is the one rolling, he actually can't win/lose via non-standard role. So for him, if he meets one of these checks the process restarts again at isTripleWin. If none of the checks are met, you get a standard roll.

Last thing to mention is that you can still get a double/triple with a standard roll, if the roll naturally hits 111, 456, or whatever special roll. And once again, if it's Tai Ho rolling the game just rerolls.

Rune Elemental Resistances
Equipped runes actually give characters the corresponding resistance. So if a character with a Lightning rune equipped gets hit with lightning damage, they will take reduced damage compared to not having a Lightning rune equipped. Soul Eater also gives resistances to all elements to my knowledge, it's why McDohl tanks magic damage so well. I don't know the mechanics here that well, never really dug into it. It was discovered in a speedrun where I removed Kirkis's Wind rune to sell it and then had him die to Neclord in a spot he normally survives comfortably. Reviewing the video I found he took double damage from Neclord's Wind attacks compared to when he had the Wind rune equipped. Soul Eater resistance was guessed from McDohl taking less damage than Luc (with a Resurrection rune equipped) from Neclord's attacks, even though he had about 50-60 less MGC.
KFCrispy
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Re: Chinchironin & Rune Elemental resistance mechanics.

Post by KFCrispy »

wow nice find! who knew after all these years. so the game design was kind of like "fight fire with fire" :D
TheyCallMeStacy
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:50 pm

Re: Chinchironin & Rune Elemental resistance mechanics.

Post by TheyCallMeStacy »

Yeah, watching some playthroughs I noticed this as well. It would be fun is someone could figure out which enemies' magic attacks have what element. Regarding this, a couple of curiosities emerge:

1. Do all magic attacks from enemies correspond to an element? From my memory almost all of them do, but some are ambiguous. The ones I can think of are the final boss's unite magic attack (though I would guess fire if it was elemental), the Siren's attack all sound attack, and the devil's shield and its variations' attack all attack (if it is actually a magic based attack).

2. Regarding the resurrection rune - I wonder if there are any enemies that inflict holy damage (and thus, the resurrection rune cuts in half)? Looking at the bestiary I can't think of any enemy that uses a magic attack that would be of this element - the only one I could think of is the Crystal Core boss and its magical attack when it is in its second form - since it itself is immune to holy damage, it could make sense the attack is holy based (but it also could earth or fire based).

3. Watching AbidingGamer's boss fight with the Zombie Dragon (https://youtu.be/6Ezim1yAFDs?t=95), two curiosities emerge. In the fight, Cleo is equipped with the fire rune and Camille is equipped with the water rune. Yet both don't take reduced damage from its breath attack like Tir does. Yet, more interestingly, Tai Ho seems to take half the damage from he should (he takes less damage than Cleo does), and the results screen confirm his magic stat is low and not boosted by equipment. This makes me think it is possible that just like characters having natural elements on their weapons if they do not have any elemental rune pieces equipped, it is possible characters have a natural magic resistance if they don't have an elemental rune equipped. If this did exist, I would guess Tai Ho's element is water because he is a fisherman. However, since Camille didn't take reduced damage, this doesn't seem to be the case.

4. Is it possible the Zombie Dragon's breath attack is darkness based (so only the soul eater resists)? This would explain why Tir and Tai Ho (if he does have a natural resistance) took reduced damage. I can't think of any other attack that would be darkness based though - even Neclord's attacks are wind or lightning based, and monsters in his castle that attack with magic use fire based magic I believe.

It would be fun if someone could experiment and test more, as I don't currently have access to the game. I look forward to seeing more insights regarding this, if possible!
Z3R01337
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:06 am

Re: Chinchironin & Rune Elemental resistance mechanics.

Post by Z3R01337 »

1&2. Don't really know. I assume not all do, but I've never looked through everything.
3&4. Yeah, my guess is that it's not Fire elemental. I'll attach an image along with my stats below, but I have Viktor w/ 48MGC taking 82 damage and Cleo w/ 92MGC and a Fire Rune taking 37 damage. Damage difference is 45, and there is a 44 MGC difference so it lines up with no resistance on both. Cleo has a Fire Rune equipped here too. To contrast, McDohl took 25 damage with 79MGC, so he took 12 less than Cleo with 13 less MGC than her. Seem's to line up at about half damage on him IMO.

There is another really weird mechanic that I caught routing this fight before: slot 6 seems to take half damage from the Breath attack. That's why Tai Ho took less than Cleo there and takes less than most characters there. Try out swapping Camille & Tai Ho sometime, Camille will always tank Breath no problem and Tai Ho will get really low from it (assuming starting levels / eqp etc.) I have no idea why it works that way or if it occurs in other places but it definitely happens here.

MGC Stats:
H 79
V 48
G 40
Cl 92
Ca 37
T 24
ZombieDragonDMG.jpg
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TheyCallMeStacy
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:50 pm

Re: Chinchironin & Rune Elemental resistance mechanics.

Post by TheyCallMeStacy »

Oh that is interesting. Yeah I looked up other people's vids of the Zombie Dragon fight and indeed, in this one ( https://youtu.be/1_UKQTv4JGY?t=165 ), where Gremio is placed in slot 6, he seems to take half damage as well. It's probably an oversight, but it would be interesting if it were intentional, as a way of sparing new players from having their entire party wiped out, since this boss is the first boss with an attack all attack (besides the queen ant, who isn't really a boss fight), and is quite the step up in difficulty from any battle so far in the game.

I have not seen any other bosses' attack all magic in this game displaying this behavior, so it is quite strange indeed.
thcrock
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Re: Chinchironin & Rune Elemental resistance mechanics.

Post by thcrock »

Good to know for whenever I revive my MMO chinchirorin project
KFCrispy
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Re: Chinchironin & Rune Elemental resistance mechanics.

Post by KFCrispy »

so there are bonuses for formation positions way before Suikoden V ;D
TheyCallMeStacy
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:50 pm

Re: Chinchironin & Rune Elemental resistance mechanics.

Post by TheyCallMeStacy »

Haha reminds me of how in Suikoden 2 someone found out that characters placed in the more following positions in a formation made them more likely to be targeted for single target attacks. I wonder if there's any of that in Suikoden 1 =p
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