[Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

A forum to ask questions if you are stuck in the The Gate Rune Wars; or wish for more clarity on the gameplay systems.
KFCrispy
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby KFCrispy » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:23 pm

This is VERY fun! I will definitely replay this game later to mess around.

Z3R01337
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby Z3R01337 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:09 pm

Pyriel is right, the emulator is Bizhawk. And the bios is PSP660, that might matter if using my script.

Edit so I don't double post:
Tomm88 figured out that to be able to interact with an invisible character the characters in the slots before them need to be on screen. Not sure if this is universally true, but from my testing it appears to be true in the castle at least. Sonya is actually available much earlier, as long as everyone in slots 0-6 in the basement is in the room and the flag at

Code: Select all

0x1B9B37
is set. Sadly, Crowley hangs out in the basement so you'd need to get him which means CL4 requirement. Also, Krin is forced into your party for Moravia so she's unavailable then too.

It also explains why invisible Moose isn't available without Maas and Meese recruited, the first 5 slots on that floor go Maas, Meese, Moose, Mose, Mace.

Sadly it limits the amount of exploitable rooms quite a bit, as lots of rooms have a late game character in an early slot.

And last thing, technically invisible washed up Kirkis at the dock is possible and interactable. I couldn't find any character to set it up, and your options are fairly limited for characters at that point. I edited his coords though and went through, you can essentially skip the Kouan segment and play up to talking to Mathiu before Kimberly. One of the side effects was the castle not upgrading to LVL2, which makes the Mathiu prompt after Luikan's Hermitage inaccessible.

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MasterGrand
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby MasterGrand » Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:26 pm

OK, I want know what is to do for fix all ?, Can someone add tips or guides step by step ?

Z3R01337
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby Z3R01337 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:49 pm

That's not the direction I want to go. The glitch is fairly easy to avoid, if you don't like it don't use it. I want to find more ways to exploit it :D

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MasterGrand
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby MasterGrand » Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:11 pm

That's not the direction I want to go. The glitch is fairly easy to avoid, if you don't like it don't use it. I want to find more ways to exploit it :D
Do you mean no need to fix this is bugs ? :shock:

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Pyriel
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby Pyriel » Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:46 pm

If it's what you want to do because it sounds like a fun project, go ahead.

Apart from Invisible Viki and one or two others that cropped up randomly and caused no harm, most of these were discovered and reported in about the last three days. It's not exactly an issue haunting every casual play-through and ruining the experience.

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Vextor
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby Vextor » Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:11 pm

I wonder what Murayama would say if he learned of this -- or if he is even aware of such a possibly game-breaking bug. He may laugh. He has said the scheudle was very tight and he had very limited resources for Suikoden 1, so the situation is a bit understandable.

Z3R01337
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby Z3R01337 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:03 am

Here's the newest find: Invisible Gaspar
https://youtu.be/_GGkxRu7izY

Requires:
Castle Level 2
Gaspar NOT recruited
Marie, Antonio, Chapman, Chandler, Jabba recruited
Varkas, Sydonia, Viktor, Camille on the floor (so not in party, Viktor not in hallway post Gremio death, away on story events, etc). This makes post Scarletia the first time you can do this.
Humphrey last in party

Theoretically this can be done with CL3/4, but I could not find a party member that setup reachable coordinates for Gaspar.

The really odd thing is that when I tested this yesterday, I was able to Escape Talisman out. It put me a bit above/to the right of where leaving the game with Gaspar normally puts you. I have no idea why it worked that time, but the fact that it changed is really interesting to me.

Edit: I got the Escape Talisman to work again. I think it works if you don't leave the castle after Scarletia. I'm guessing it keeps the state of the last area you were in or something along those lines, at least if you're warped straight back to the castle. It puts you at 16,43

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Pyriel
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby Pyriel » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:23 am

This is only when you get warped via script, right? Where does the talisman put you when it works 16,43 on one of the castle maps or in Scarleticia?

Z3R01337
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby Z3R01337 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:09 pm

Yeah, I think it's only when you get warped via script. Can't think of any other spot to test it though. And it's 16,43 in the first floor of the castle, same room as Gaspar.

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Pyriel
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby Pyriel » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:01 pm

Well, in 2 they actually stored (area, map, X, Y) for the talisman, but if they followed a convention where the entirety of an area is on the same map, and only X,Y are stored, this could be kind of cheaty. I don't remember how many times you get a fade to black and appear back at the castle like that either, unfortunately.

If nobody beats me to it, I'll see about pinning down how the talisman is handled this weekend.

Z3R01337
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby Z3R01337 » Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:18 am

That would be nice. I did figure out a bit about that Escape Talisman. Post Scarletia it actually works everywhere in the castle. It generally warps you to 16,43 of the current floor you're on. Outside/basement puts you outside, and on floor 1 when you get on/past the side bridges it will warp you to the bridge screen (off screen, soft locked). The reason it uses those coordinates is because that's where finishing Scarletia puts you on the dock.

Also, funnily enough, this could have some very small practical applications in the speedrun.

Edit: Tried a few more spots. Post Pannu Yakuta works, post Pahn duel works, and I assume since post Pahn works post Teo duel works. Post Milia dragon ride doesn't work, and post Shasazarade doesn't work. The interesting thing for me is that the the Pahn duel still puts you at 16,43, whereas the game spawns you in at the top of the 3rd floor which does not match with these coordinates. There could be other timings to test, these were just the ones that came to mind.

Edit 2: Tried post Hero/Teo duel, no luck. So for the Pahn/Teo duel, I think it's just the state still persisting from Scarletia.

KFCrispy
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Re: [Bug] The phantom Viki and invisible Sonya

Postby KFCrispy » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:40 pm

I wonder what Murayama would say if he learned of this -- or if he is even aware of such a possibly game-breaking bug. He may laugh. He has said the scheudle was very tight and he had very limited resources for Suikoden 1, so the situation is a bit understandable.
He should be pretty responsive in the Eiyuden discord!


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