[Guide] extra swings from Gale Rune and Top Commander

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thecasualoblivion
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Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 10:21 pm

[Guide] extra swings from Gale Rune and Top Commander

Post by thecasualoblivion »

Did some testing, compared to the Max Swings guide I found that:

Juan and Shabon got a 7th swing with Top Commander
Mel gets a 6th swing with Top Commander
Nei gets a 6th swing with Top Commander, or a 5th swing with just a Gale Rune
Ruby, Hugo, and Watari get a 5th swing with Top Commander
Joker gets a 4th swing with Top Commander and 5 swings with Top Commander and a Gale Rune
Ayame and Nash can get a 4th swing with Top commander, but Nash might need some speed boosting gear
Rhett gets a 4th swing with Top Commander
Sharon and Gau get a 3rd swing with Top Commander
Beecham, Borus, Edge, Fred, Mua, and Samus can get a 3rd swing with either Top Commander or a Gale Rune, though some might require a little extra speed from gear to get there
Salome and Duke get a second swing with either Top Commander or a Gale Rune
Twaikin can get a second swing with both Top Commander and a Gale Rune
Rico can get a second swing with both Top Commander and a Gale Rune but needs 179 speed, while Leo can do this as well but isn’t going to get there without doing the Stone of Speed trick

I didn’t test the dogs or the mages, didn’t see the point. I Still need to test Kenji, Bright, Bazba, and Dupa. I forgot to test Kenji and Bright, and I wasn’t able to get the lizards a second swing with their levels in the low 50s. It’s possible that Bazba at level 57 with a Gale Rune might get there, or that Dupa with 5-7 levels worth of additional speed stat might get there. Any characters not mentioned in the above list I was not able to get an additional swing with any combination of Top Commander, the Gale Rune, and additional speed boosting gear.

What surprises most about my testing was how few characters actually benefit from a Gale Rune end game. Only Nei, Salome, Duke, and 1 hand sword users with B swing benefit from just the Gale Rune, while Joker, Twaikin and Rico get their Max swings using both a Gale Rune and the Top Commander appointment. That is it, nobody else benefits from a Gale Rune aside from using it instead of speed boosting armor to get their normal Max swings.
KFCrispy
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Re: Gale Rune and Top Commander guide

Post by KFCrispy »

Thanks for the research!!
highwind44029
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Re: Gale Rune and Top Commander guide

Post by highwind44029 »

I finally got a hold of the game again and I've been testing SPD breakpoints for a bunch of characters. Here are my findings:

Wan Fu can get a third swing with Top Commander at around 151 SPD. This is normally not achievable in a normal playthrough, as the only way I managed this was with Level 99 + Blood Armor + Wind Hat. What's interesting though is that while the title only upgrades his Swing to B, he gets a third swing at the same SPD as characters with the same weapon weight (06 - Elaine, Lilly, Melville, Percival, Queen, Reed) but with a B+ in Swing. It's possible that his weapon weight is actually 05, since the figures (Swing - B, 151 SPD) line up perfectly with Ace's third swing. Still, it was pretty cool to see him poke enemies with his staff.

Like Landis, Bazba gets a second Swing at 179 SPD. I believe this is only possible with a Gale Rune or stat stones since his SPD growth is so low (probably around 130-140 at Level 99). With Top Commander appointment but without Gale Rune, he doesn't reach a second swing even at 140 SPD (110 raw stat, +10 from Wind Hat, +20 from Blood Armor.)

Dupa would also need 179 SPD for a second Swing at base, but he has higher SPD growth than Bazba. With Top Commander appointment, Dupa reaches a second swing at around 153 SPD (mine had 133 raw stat + 20 from Blood Armor.)

Kenji and Nei need 158 SPD for a 5th Swing at base. With Top Commander appointment, Kenji and Nei follow Shabon's SPD requirement (149) for a 6th Swing. Kenji usually only reaches 3rd Swing because of his abysmal SPD growth, but for reference, my Level 97 Kenji has 136 SPD, so he would need Wind Hat and Ninja Suit for a 5th Swing at base or 6th Swing with the appointment. Nei can easily achieve this with end-game stats and a combination of Wind Hat, Taikyoku Tunic or Ninja Suit, and however many Feather Earrings necessary.

Estella gets a second swing at around 175 SPD. This most likely applies to other ring-bearers like Luc and Sasarai since they all have the same weapon weight and have C in Swing. I could probably try and test Top Commander with Sasarai once I get him just to check the required SPD stat.

Edge gets a third swing at above 171 SPD at base. For reference, mine had 181 SPD (151 raw stat + 10 from Wind Hat + 20 from Blood Armor) and with just the Blood Armor he only had 2 swings. It's pretty worth it reaching for this stat if you can achieve it.

Overall, Gale Rune is only beneficial for characters that go from 1 to 2 swings and have at least 2 free rune slots.
If a character only has one free rune slot (Bazba, Beecham, Borus, Fred, Jimba) Double-strike is a bigger DPS increase than Gale since DS doubles damage, the second swing only does 75% damage of the first swing.
If a character has at least two free rune slots (Duke, Rico, all pure mages except Piccolo), Double-strike + Gale is a bigger DPS increase than Double-strike + Fury since Berserk status only increases damage by 50%. Salome can go Fury + DS + Gale.
Last edited by highwind44029 on Thu Jul 08, 2021 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JuveLeo
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Re: Gale Rune and Top Commander guide

Post by JuveLeo »

Great work dude!
KFCrispy
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Re: [Guide] extra swings from Gale Rune and Top Commander

Post by KFCrispy »

I'm trying to capture more numbers for swings and ordered the list of characters by weapon weight and skill. Cross-referencing with highwind44029's research is going to be helpful. I can also fill in some combinations only achievable with Top Commander, like a weapon weight 12 (Bazba, Dupa, Landis, Shiba) and B+ swing!

Yeah we should fix up Wan Fu's weapon to be 05, thanks!
KFCrispy
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Re: [Guide] extra swings from Gale Rune and Top Commander

Post by KFCrispy »

thecasualoblivion wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:30 amWhat surprises most about my testing was how few characters actually benefit from a Gale Rune end game. Only Nei, Salome, Duke, and 1 hand sword users with B swing benefit from just the Gale Rune, while Joker, Twaikin and Rico get their Max swings using both a Gale Rune and the Top Commander appointment. That is it, nobody else benefits from a Gale Rune aside from using it instead of speed boosting armor to get their normal Max swings.
I'm doing more research on finding key SPD stats to reach the next swing level, and I found a high-level Joker (mine is lv 67) gets 5 swings with just a Gale Rune, which raises his SPD to 198. With just equipment and no Gale, I was able to confirm a SPD of 157 is not high enough, but that makes sense considering Nei and Kenji at B+ swing need 158 for their 5th swing. *Joker's 4th swing appears at either 156 or 157 SPD!
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