Use Sun Rune to stop Godwin ~fomerly:Plot Holes (spoilers)

Red XIV · Post by **Red XIV** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:50 am

In addition to what's already been mentioned, there's another very obvious reason to prevent Arshtat from using the Sun Rune against Stormfist: they were in Stormfist at the time. Even if Ferid and the Prince were cold-hearted bastards who wouldn't think twice about killing hundreds or thousands of people to take out a couple of their enemies (which of course they weren't), they still wouldn't want to be at ground zero of the blast.

Post by **Oppenheimer** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:43 am

Yes, a good point. I did mention it earlier.

Oppenheimer wrote:He couldn't very well let Arstat wipe out an entire village, which included the entire royal family who was in it at that moment, just because the Godwins rigged the marriage cerimony.

But it doesn't seem like anyone noticed it then either, so it's good to reinforce.

So what exactly was Arstat and Ferid's plan? Arstat said to the prince just before the night of the attack that they won't just take this lying down or whatever it was she said. What did that mean?

Wraith · Post by **Wraith** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:38 am

So what exactly was Arstat and Ferid's plan? Arstat said to the prince just before the night of the attack that they won't just take this lying down or whatever it was she said. What did that mean?

They probably had a plan but got overpowered. The plan probably consisted of just trying to kill the opposition.

Magnumkiller · Post by **Magnumkiller** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:56 pm

That is the plan.

They took the antidote so they could fight and beat the others, they probably knew they were going to be attacked by soldiers, instead of the Godwins waiting for Ferid and Arshtat to die old.

You can notice this from the whole army of guards protecting the entrance to the castle, Lyon in the bed of the prince to stop the assasin, Ferid talking to Georg about the 'In case I die...' plan, and the part in which Kyle or a soldier, can't remember which, says that the enemy is stronger than expected.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:05 pm

If Zahhak and Alenia hadn't betrayed Galleon and Miakis, they might've actually had a chance. Four Queen's Knights could probably (slowly) overwhelm the opposition, especially since they are more familiar with the nooks and crannies of the palace, and they aren't on a battlefield, exposed to everyone, with the odds stacked against them.

There were just things the Queen's Knights and the royal family just weren't expecting.

Red XIV · Post by **Red XIV** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:40 pm

Even with Alenia & Zahhak's betrayal, the Godwins' plan required Arshtat to die, and that wouldn't have happened if she hadn't completely lost control of the Sun Rune during the battle. Ferid, Georg, and Galleon were obviously beating the Nether Gate assassins and Godwin troops in the throne room, after all.

Post by **thcrock** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:03 am

Thats right, she didn't use the Sun Rune to win the battle, she used it to save Ferid.

Even if that sniper had killed Ferid, Georg and Galleon still had the upper hand. Although Arshtat could certainly have lost of the Sun Rune then, too.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:40 am

I don't quite catch the wording.

Even with Alenia & Zahhak's betrayal, the Godwins' plan required Arshtat to die, and that wouldn't have happened if she hadn't completely lost control of the Sun Rune during the battle.

Shouldn't that be even without their betrayal? The eventual plan would be rule Falena through the Queen's marriage to a Godwin. Lym would be the only candidate, and would need to be taken by the Godwins. With four Queen's Knights guarding her (Alenia, Galleon, Miakis and Zahhak), I can't really see them losing, especially with the third best among them (Zahhak).

Red XIV · Post by **Red XIV** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:18 am

My point was, if not for Arshtat losing control of the Sun Rune, Alenia and Zahhak's betryal wouldn't have mattered. The Godwins' plan was totally reliant on Arshtat dying. If she lives, they fail even if they do manage to capture Lym.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:27 am

I understand that point, but their plan relied on capturing Lym also. Without Lym, nothing would have worked. The Queen may have died, and they'd have no heir on their hands. Sialeeds and Haswar would be the only ones left, and they wouldn't do it.

I know they needed the Queen to die, but the plan falls apart without an heir. Whether or not Arshtat makes it doesn't matter when Lym cannot be found.

Could you stop using double negatives please? It's still hard to catch your meaning.

Rezard · Post by **Rezard** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:17 pm

Oppenheimer wrote:

Sounds like you and the Godwins would get along great.

Maybe, some stuff they said is true, like how the interests of a nation are more important than the interests of a few people. Personally, I donâ€™t like Belcoot and Marina, to me they are both criminals who deserved to be punished.

Of course, I would need lots of influence from the sun rune to agree with imperialism and genocide.

Jowy Atreides wrote:

They don't know a war will break out. Either way, something was going to happen. You could argue endlessly either way.

Yes they do, I donâ€™t know who said, but it was said that Arsaht bore the sun rune just to delay war, that she knew it was going to happen. I think it was Lucretia.

You guys wonâ€™t agree, but it was a plot hole, if the game stayed longer with people playing "games" with each other, instead of fighting, the game would be boring. If it was real life, they would keep playing "games" until someone gets the upper hand to attack the other. Fighting directly is usually the last option.

Riou92 · Post by **Riou92** » Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:58 am

I did not read all of the post so.....you know.

Arshtat did not use the Sun Rune in Stormfist because of:

a) She could have kill her own family, her own knights and her own citizens. That's why Ferid stopped him (The guy's not heartless like Georg said)
b) The people of Stormfist does not support that, just because the ruler becomes evil, that does not mean the citizens agreed with it and that does not mean the citizen must receive the pain just because their leader is wrong. You know the meaning of True Loyalty.
c) People will think the queen as a merciless and barbarous ruler.

ShardStar · Post by **ShardStar** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:12 am

Rezard, how are Belcoot and Marina criminals? Belcoot tried to obey the rules and look what it got him, drugged by the one he loves. Marina was scared for Belcoot and didn't want him marrying the Princess so Godwin used her, how is that criminal? If anyone is criminal, it's the Godwins. Using the Sun Rune on Stormfist would have been as wrong as using it on Lord Lake was. You don't use a hammer where a scalpel will do.

tera_majin · Post by **tera_majin** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:58 pm

i agree with riou..

btw, i agree the point that marina is a criminal.. the reason she put the dark arcanum is so unacceptable and unreasonable..belcoot wants to marry lym for good -- for abolishing the gladiators' slavery.. if she loves belcoot that much, she has to understand that.. i'd say that her love to belcoot is a blind love..

Riou92 · Post by **Riou92** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:28 am

Don't forget, it was Dolph that give her the Dark Arcanum and it was Dolph who convinced Sialeeds to change sides. He must have a way to convince Marina. Marina loves Belcoot so much that she watch over Hazuki a lot of times, she doesn't want to lose him (I would do the same if the same condition happened to me).
And another thing is when Belcoot marry Lym, think of what those noble will said, Marina don't want such thing....