I want old dudes back

[tmxdragoon]

I would like to see Joshua from the dragon knights make a return. We never got to see anything about him. Plus he has the dragon rune and it seems to never be brought up anymore in the series.

[LadyRhia]

I would like to see Joshua from the dragon knights make a return. We never got to see anything about him. Plus he has the dragon rune and it seems to never be brought up anymore in the series.

Didn't it mention in Suikoden III that Milia was in Joshua's place now?

[27x4=108]

yes but if suikoden "X" takes place before that, joshua can appear with his dragon rune ( i prefer milia, was one of my favourite chars )

[nephlabobo]

I for one, don't.

Suikoden's I-III were a natural progression and it made sense (mostly) when old characters appeared (like Futch).

Suikodens IV and V capitalised TOO much on nostalgia. Wayyyyyy too much.

It's time to move on. Set the S VI *after* Suikoden III. We *might* get some returning characters from S III (like Fred and Pico or Hugo) which would make sense - but make characters like Viktor, Humphrey, Flik et. al too old to return. Unless it were maybe in a strategic sense.

I'd rather see the series move forward than cannibalise itself any more.

[Rune of Illusion]

I would like to see Joshua from the dragon knights make a return. We never got to see anything about him. Plus he has the dragon rune and it seems to never be brought up anymore in the series.

Joshua for many years was the holder of the Dragon Rune which allows dragons to exist in this world. He helped Barbarossa during the Succession War and became friends with both Humphrey and Kreutz. During the Gate Rune Wars, he agreed to help the Toran Liberation Army after they helped him cure the disease that made dragons sleep. At the final siege on Gregminster, he helped amplify Leknaat's Gate Rune by using his Dragon Rune, which allowed Leknaat to send all of Windy's monster army back to the netherworld. He later gave up his Dragon Rune and position as the Captain of the Dragon Knights to Milia, and retired.

I wish people would read the character bios before they post.

I happen to agree with nephlabobo, if it is logical for a character to come back the by all means, but I'd much rather see new story with new characters in past or future set stories.

[27x4=108]

there are like 200 years of yoshua bearing the dragon rune that they can use with a lot of plots and some characters, its not a crazy idea

[Iris]

I for one, don't.

Suikoden's I-III were a natural progression and it made sense (mostly) when old characters appeared (like Futch).

Suikodens IV and V capitalised TOO much on nostalgia. Wayyyyyy too much.

It's time to move on. Set the S VI *after* Suikoden III. We *might* get some returning characters from S III (like Fred and Pico or Hugo) which would make sense - but make characters like Viktor, Humphrey, Flik et. al too old to return. Unless it were maybe in a strategic sense.

I'd rather see the series move forward than cannibalise itself any more.

"Cannibalize itself?" Dude. We've got over 400 years worth of history to cover. More stuff in the past would be awesome so long as it continues not to suck.

Suikoden IV did not capitalize on nostalgia. The only two returning characters were Jeane and Viki, and they're staples. It tried to be its own game, and because it DIDN'T capitalize on nostalgia, it was PHAIL in the minds of some special individuals. Suikoden V was the one who capitalized on nostalgia- Lorelai, Killey, Millich being invited to the Coronation ceremony, Cathari (Howling Voice Guild), Georg, references to Morgan, Retso, and a few other references to the games. IV was like the Final Fantasy VIII of the series except for the part where Sui4 was AWESOME, and V's like the Final Fantasy IX of the series, only nowhere NEAR as good.

[Rune of Illusion]

are you trying to say that Suikoden V was bad? Well, that is your opinion.

4 could not be too nostalgic as the only ties it has to the other games are two characters and similar game play.

like I said earlier there is nothing wrong with a Suikoden set in the past as it edifies the future.

unless Konami decides to do a gaidens on important events in suikoden history then Joshua will be there, but in a main game it is doubtful. Millia may come back though.

Edit: I need to get more sleep.

[Rai-Jin]

I understand and agree with Iris abit. But I doubt every event in the past 400 years can be based on a 108 stars of destiny, good hero thingy.
Id like to move on too.

Things they could do and wich would be interesting would be Hikusaaks story. He was also a hero and it would explain more about his nature. (Way back I mean when he got the Circle Rune)

[Iris]

are you trying to say that Suikoden V was bad? Well, that is your opinion.

Oh, I actually liked SV. It's my least favorite in the series so far, but I still liked it. Just, y'know, Final Fantasy IX is my second-favorite game EVARZ.

I understand and agree with Iris abit. But I doubt every event in the past 400 years can be based on a 108 stars of destiny, good hero thingy.
Id like to move on too.

Dude. OVER 400 years of history. Hikusaak was the one who established the In Solis calendar, and Sierra is over 800 years old. Seeing that Sierra was around 20 or so when she got the Blue Moon Rune, that means we've got around nine hundred years at the very, very least. How can over eighthundred years of history somehow NOT fuel a good war story with 108 characters? Actually, really only 20. 80% or so of the recruits in Suikodens are optional.

[nephlabobo]

"Cannibalize itself?" Dude. We've got over 400 years worth of history to cover. More stuff in the past would be awesome so long as it continues not to suck.

The problem is that S's I-III happened with a finite period of time. Seeing old dudes back would limit it to the space within the period of the first three games (for the most part)

Suikoden IV did not capitalize on nostalgia. The only two returning characters were Jeane and Viki, and they're staples.

Wrong - Ted.

It tried to be its own game, and because it DIDN'T capitalize on nostalgia, it was PHAIL in the minds of some special individuals.

It really felt like it tried to redo the Suikoden II hero/Jowy relationship...and it failed miserably.

Suikoden V was the one who capitalized on nostalgia- Lorelai, Killey, Millich being invited to the Coronation ceremony, Cathari (Howling Voice Guild), Georg, references to Morgan, Retso, and a few other references to the games.

I don't disagree with that. The execution, overall, was better than Suikoden IV though. It wasn't as boring to play and it blows Suikoden IV's soundtrack out of the water...and that's why I prefer it.

IV was like the Final Fantasy VIII of the series except for the part where Sui4 was AWESOME, and V's like the Final Fantasy IX of the series, only nowhere NEAR as good.

I *despised* Final Fantasy 8, so your analogy rings true - to a degree. I much preferred Final Fantasy 9 to Final Fantasy 8.

The point is, I would rather the series continue on from where Suikoden III left off.

[Iris]

The problem is that S's I-III happened with a finite period of time. Seeing old dudes back would limit it to the space within the period of the first three games (for the most part)

Who says it has to include a myriad of characters from I-III? Now that we have IV, it can take place in nearly any period of time, and with the addition of Zerase and possibly Eresh, there's plenty of chances for old characters to return. And who says the characters themselves have to return? Why not ancestors or references?

Either way, the point that I was trying to make is that due to the incredibly long history in the Suiworld, it can't cannibalize itself since there's so much to cover.

Wrong - Ted.

Even though he was my overpowered battle buddy, I'm amazed at how often I forget him.

It really felt like it tried to redo the Suikoden II hero/Jowy relationship...and it failed miserably.

Ha yeah right? Snowe was totally different than Jowy. Yeah, it's true that they both were the Best Friend That Betrays You, but Snowe was what Jowy wanted to be.

Jowy was totally driven by his sense of "Well the Rune says so, so it must be done!" wheras Snowe really just wanted to feel genuinly appriciated and loved, not as Snowe Vingerhut Captain of the Gaien Knights and son of Vincent Vingerhut, but as just Snowe. What he really wanted was a true friend, and he would do anything to get it, even delude himself into thinking that Lazlo had killed Glen. Jowy just followed the curse of the Rune.

Jowy was a jerk, but one who convinced himself that it was because of the Rune and so would not take responsibility. Snowe eventually realized his mistake and was forgiven by his friend.

If you're really going to compare Jowy to someone, make it Sialeeds. And even that's a stretch.

I don't disagree with that. The execution, overall, was better than Suikoden IV though. It wasn't as boring to play and it blows Suikoden IV's soundtrack out of the water...and that's why I prefer it.

Gonna have to disagree with you there- have you listened to certain parts of the S4 soundtrack? No, really. I don't know if we're allowed to give links out, but just go to BlueLaguna or Galbadia Hotel and download the following:

*la mer
*Battle on the Sea 1
*Battle on the Sea 2
*Confessional Song
*Ritapon
*Rune of Punishment.

I liked S5's songs, but whomever did it beating Masahiko Kimura's stuff? No chance.

[nephlabobo]

Who says it has to include a myriad of characters from I-III? Now that we have IV, it can take place in nearly any period of time, and with the addition of Zerase and possibly Eresh, there's plenty of chances for old characters to return. And who says the characters themselves have to return? Why not ancestors or references?

Why not just do new characters at that point? Why does *everyone* have to be an ancestor of someone else?

Either way, the point that I was trying to make is that due to the incredibly long history in the Suiworld, it can't cannibalize itself since there's so much to cover.

It will if it keeps making references to other characters. It's a big world. Let's see some variety.

Even though he was my overpowered battle buddy, I'm amazed at how often I forget him.

I'll forgive you this time

Ha yeah right? Snowe was totally different than Jowy. Yeah, it's true that they both were the Best Friend That Betrays You, but Snowe was what Jowy wanted to be.

He came across as a spoiled whiny brat to me. Jowy was misguided and thought he was doing what was right. Snowe did what he did because he was having a temper tantrum.

Gonna have to disagree with you there- have you listened to certain parts of the S4 soundtrack?

I liked S5's songs, but whomever did it beating Masahiko Kimura's stuff? No chance.[/quote]

I own the soundtrack to S IV. In fact, I own the first 4 soundtracks. (Original copies - not downloads). I'm getting S5 in the next month or so.

I *did* like the version of the "old" Suikoden theme that was on S4's soundtrack...but most of it left me cold.

Musical taste is subjective, so I'm not going to argue about it.

There's no such thing as "no chance" when it comes to one soundtrack "beating" another. I prefer S5, any day of the week.

[Iris]

No, I want new characters, too. References and ancestors are great, but so are new ones. So, apparently we were misunderstanding each other the whole time. Lawlz.

He came across as a spoiled whiny brat to me. Jowy was misguided and thought he was doing what was right. Snowe did what he did because he was having a temper tantrum.

Snowe did what he did because, like Jowy, he convinced himself that he was doing the right thing in turning Lazlo in (he really did think he killed Glen) and then going after Lazlo when he thought he turned into a pirate.

However, his reasons went deeper than that- he wanted to feel loved for being him. Snowe had been raised as someone who would become the captain of the Gaien Knights and lord of Razril, as Young Master Snowe. He was never able to really become his own person because of these titles. He felt, and quite rightly, that he was loved not for who he was but for what he was, and he began to question whether people really cared about him as a person. This furthered when he saw that Lazlo was loved as much as he was by the people of Razril, even though Lazlo was his servant. Actually, Commander Glen treated Lazlo better than him, even though HE was Lord Vingerhut's son! How dare he! Seeing this, he began to seriously wonder if the affection for him was truly genuine.

And so, when Glen died and he saw Lazlo there, he convinced himself that he was right, that Lazlo had killed Commander Glen. Why? Who knows- I personally like to believe that his jealously got the better of him and that's why he believed it. He did think he was doing the right thing, even if he did feel some guilt.

He then sold Razril out to Kooluk. Why? He knew that Troy was leading the Kooluk Armada, and so they didn't stand a chance. It would just be better if he allied himself with Kooluk so his people wouldn't be hurt, right? After he had done what he thought was best, it was time to better earn his people's affection by doing away with the Dread Pirate Kika and her gang of awesomes. But who should be there but Lazlo. After being defeated, he returned to Razril to seek comfort in his citizens. Well, not so much. Along with being professional fruit-throwers, Razrilians apparently don't take being sold out lightly. Well, that just sucked. Even after he had done what was right to prevent loss of life, people HATED him. The proverbial salt in the wound came after that, when Lazlo let him go, (wounding his pride in the process) but seeing this murderer, this PIRATE, being cheered by Razril's people. But that made no sense- hadn't he done the right thing for them? Why... why would they choose Lazlo over him? Why...? Was... it because he was a pirate? If he became a pirate, too, would people like him?

Well, no. The dog collar was a nice touch, though.

So, he was defeated once again by the hands of Lazlo and friends. Once again, he was asked to join them- but he couldn't. Not like this. And so, he was cast off to sea. Looking at Lazlo, surrounded by friends and allies, he remembered how much Lazlo was loved by people, how he was Commander Glen's favorite, how he had been cheered by the people of Razril. He realized that people had indeed loved him for what he was, he realized that Glen had only given him his authority because of what he was, and that the Razrilians had hated him because of what he had done. Always What. Never Who. So, he asked himself this: "Why doesn't anyone like me?"

And so, something happened to him. Not sure what, probably a storm or something. Snowe had been on the boat for so long, he was dressed in rags, and he was a shell of the man he was. He was, once again, saved by Lazlo. Once again, he was asked to join. Then, it hit him. Snowe knew why people loved Lazlo and not him. Lazlo bore no animosity towards others even after they had done him wrong, he was merciful and forgiving, his unyielding nature was a light of hope for those near him, and even though he had been betrayed, attacked, and hurt so much by Snowe, he still forgave him. Lazlo was really the only one who loved Snowe for who he was, not what. He was his only true friend. Seeing this, Snowe finally rejoined Lazlo, not only to repay him and to improve himself, but because he was finally at peace with himself and the world, knowing that someone really, truly did care about him.

I'm not saying I hate Jowy. I do like him. However, I don't find him to be as complex a character as Snowe. I dislike how he saw the Black Sword Rune as why he had to fight Riou and Nanami. I dislike that he did not take responsibility for his own actions. I dislike his wardrobe (srsly- white overcoats are SO IS 459). I dislike how he fought with Luca Blight, even after he saw what the Puppykiller did. I dislike his reasoning other than "The Rune made me do it!" Yes, wanting to destroy something so evil is fine, and it's bitchin' that you want to do it from the inside, but to betray your friends, not even letting them know what you're planning, going BACK on your plans to try and shoot your friend, and then just totally abandoning your post, wife, and adoptive daughter to go and attempt suicide, all without taking responsibility for your actions until some crazy blind lady who talks too much tells you that hey, Riou ended the curse of the Rune even though you were perfectly capable of fighting against it now STFU and go get the good ending? Not. Cool.

[27x4=108]

thats ur opinion

snowe maybe is complex but the scenes in suiko IV about that are shoot for me

its like kika, wow nice character, has a lot os posible plots, scenes etc

-hi, im kika
-join
-ok
--- kika joins SoD ---


jowy scenes in suikoden II are God for me ( maybe because i started playing suikoden with suiko II and that was the only i played for 4 years until get I and III )

its drama 100%, when i think about bad ending im almost crying, sad, thinking about the lone riou..

all opinions then, want old dudes back, well he maybe is talking of chars in suiko I, more viktor is hard, a great idea of konami was things like edge, maybe they need explain more to connect more, but that kind of new chars with conections to old ones is good