Was Troy really that bad of a person?

Vincent of Scarlet Moon · Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:01 am

Well, he he wasn't really being fooled by the Govenor. He was sitting in with him in all those plans and so on, after all, the Govenor and Troy had the same idea: Protecting Kooluk with expanding to the south. And while Troy didn't agree that they should get the Rune of Punishment and gift it to Harmonia in exchange of troops to keep Scarlet Moon at bay, he did go along with it as it was what his superiors wanted.

Of course, Graham Cray was manipulating them both to get the rune for himself.

TheBoundlessDream · Post by **TheBoundlessDream** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:05 pm

What good would it do to protect Kooluk by expanding to the south? holding the Island Republic in opression?

Vincent of Scarlet Moon · Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:09 pm

TheBoundlessDream wrote:What good would it do to protect Kooluk by expanding to the south? holding the Island Republic in opression?

More land, means more land to have to take to take over that country. And the Island Nations are NOT a republic.

The larger a country, generally, the more powerful it's percieved to be. Besides, it's a two-pronged plan, they'd get the land AND the rune they want too.

TheBoundlessDream · Post by **TheBoundlessDream** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:53 am

Actually it is, if you look back in Suikoden II on the info on Amada, it'll say the Island Republic.

demon eye · Post by **demon eye** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:41 am

Well, Suikoden 2 is far after Suikoden 4. The Island Republic was established during the end of Suikoden 4, but throughout the entire game they were refered to as Island Nations because they all were independent ruling nations until Lino En Kuldez combined them into a republic or federation. Therefore, using Suikoden 2 as an example for Suikoden 4 really isn't accurate due to Suikoden 4 being its predecessor.

Moonbay · Post by **Moonbay** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:24 am

First, let me address the ending, with Troy saying, "It's you."

When he first met the Hero and company, they were weak, and unable to defeat him and Colton. Imagine his surprise when he realized that the person who just kicked his butt was the same person--alone. He was probably thinking: "If I hadn't let them go, I wouldn't be here right now."

Wow....imagine that. Fate and the choices we make.

As for Troy being alive, since he's the Child of a Sea-God, that makes him a Demi-God, and as such--hard to kill. So, he's probably alive--in the ocean. Or, he's accepted his non-human side and just exists.

So, if he's saying he wants to meet the hero on the ocean again--he could mean as Troy as an Ocean God and Hero as a human.

Yubers-Apprentice · Post by **Yubers-Apprentice** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:24 am

Didn't they call him Child Of the Sea God because he was a skilled strategist and warrior on the sea?

Vincent of Scarlet Moon · Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:51 am

Yubers-Apprentice wrote:Didn't they call him Child Of the Sea God because he was a skilled strategist and warrior on the sea?

Yes.

'People' (fanboys and fangirls) are taking it far too seriously, mainly so they can pretend he survived and will show up again and make them swoon and rush to their keyboards to type up some yaoi fan-fiction.

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:38 am

Just to make it as clear as possible, Troy is just a human whose title makes fans think he is more than human when he is not. He's not an actual 'Child of the Sea God' or anything like that. In fact, I'm doubting there even is a Sea God in the first place.

Arenegeth · Post by **Arenegeth** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:00 pm

Though I'm certainly not a fanboy and I know you guys didn't refer to me personally.
Yes I would like to believe there is something deeper than that, I wish that we get to see more of Troy because he was the coolest character of IV, however in reality I know that is quite unlikely, but since there's still a chance there's hope.

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:13 pm

Jowy Atreides wrote:Just to make it as clear as possible, Troy is just a human whose title makes fans think he is more than human when he is not. He's not an actual 'Child of the Sea God' or anything like that. In fact, I'm doubting there even is a Sea God in the first place.

did konami officially state this?

I find it hillarious how peaople say "konami hasnt said anything so we dont know what there gender is" {even though they look male in all 3 games!}

and yet konami hasnt stated anything about suikoden 4 and people are saying

Jowy Atreides wrote:Just to make it as clear as possible, Troy is just a human whose title makes fans think he is more than human when he is not. He's not an actual 'Child of the Sea God' or anything like that.

How can you say that troy is A human when konami hasnt officially stated this?!! are you saying because he looks human hes human?!!!!!

you hypocrytes!!!!! yet when we talk about yuber and pesmerga who look 100% male there not male because konami hasnt officially stated it{even though in all 3 games yuber looks male and in 1 and 2 pes looks male}

so stop saying konami hasnt officially stated 1 thing so its not true and then say well this is true even if konam hasnt stated it!!!!

tHE FACT OF THE MATTER IS!!

Troy could be A true rune or he could be a witch or he could be an elf using A rune to hide his appearance and lost his memory or he could be A demi god.

He could be any friggen!!!! thing!!!!

so stop contradicting yourselves!!!! either konami has stated it or they
havent stated it otherwise all the arguments weve had are invalid!!!!!

these are the facts, yuber and pesmerga look male!!
troy looks male

people say yuber and pesmerga are not male{konami hadnt officially stated anything on it}

people say troy is just a regular human with no special purpose{konami hasnt officially stated anything about troy!}

see?the hypocrosy is big people and you guys better stop it!!!!!

does anyone else see where im coming from here?!! its frustrating!!!!

Jowy Atreides · Post by **Jowy Atreides** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:27 pm

Why would a demi-god join an army, especially one as corrupt as Kooluk's? Why would a demi-god fight alongside someone like Graham Cray when he could just kill the guy? Why would a demi-god be satisfied with just being a general would he could probably assume control over the entire nation without much trouble. Hell, why would a demi-god use a ship when he could teleport/swim really fast everywhere. Why would a demi-god get beaten by a little kid in a duel? There's too much against the "Troy is actually the 'Child of the Sea God' and it's not just a title" theory to say it's true. Try giving some evidence instead of just getting pissed off. Troy shows no sign of being a demi-god, while Yuber and Pesmerga also show no signs of being male or female, since they're devoid of anything of a personality. Troy's a good fighter, so he got a fancy title.

Also, why drag the Yuber/Pesmerga's sex topic into this one?

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:51 pm

theres no evidence on any of these 2 arguments

on 1 hand your saying"konami hasnt officially stated this so we dont know"
but on the other hand your saying"this is truth even though konami hasnt stated this"

yuber and pesmergas sex debate is just to give an example of what ive been saying

the whole point of my post is to show that you people are saying 1 thing and then saying another thing that contradicts the other thing

bottom line it dosent matter what it looks like, since konami hasnt stated anything about troy that means that anything is possible

and everything you said is just an oppinion about both arguments

if something looks obvious you people say"konami hasnt officially stated it so its not that" but in this scenario your saying"troy is human because he looks human and it wouldnt make sense for him to be anything else" but konami hasnt officially stated anything so your being hypocritical

Im not repeating myself anymore so if you dont understand what Im saying then just forget it

Shirofan · Post by **Shirofan** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:11 pm

Konami have not explicitly stated a great deal about the games if you want to break things down into semantics.

Troy's species has not been stated, but neither has any other human been confirmed in writing; whereas Pesmerga and Yuber have been confirmed as non-human and have their sex listed as unknown by Konami.

As a result it is possible that Troy is not human (as we do not have deatails about his past) and therefore could have survived; even if that would cheapen his final scenes.

However, it is unlikely that the "Child of the Sea God" references are more than just a title given for his prowess on the ocean. From the looks of things it seems as though Kooluk venerates at least this one deity; thus should Troy be a demi-god then you would expect he would get more respect from the Governor, Colton and Cray.

son_michael · Post by **son_michael** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:26 pm

Shirofan wrote:As a result it is possible that Troy is not human (as we do not have deatails about his past) and therefore could have survived; even if that would cheapen his final scenes.

Thats what I was trying to say

pesmerga and yuber are officially stated as having no sex so that means my previous posts about pes and yuber arent good examples and also they werent being hypocritical because its officially stated pes and yuber have no sex but theres no official stating on troy

I forgot it was officially stated yuber and pes had no sex

so I apologize that I accused people of being hypocrits but jowy atrieds was still saying something was true when he had no proof

that much was confirmed by shiro fan