Bright's Spreading Flame Rune damage formula?

[Punkaiser]

I bring some news. Just tested with bright's spreading flame. I thought it would work in same way as Mel's DD but to remind that the speading flame adds only 100 fire damage

I tested and noted that Fire skill doesnt have any effect, neither does magic boost. Here's info from test:
1/Bright lv 56 attack 427, 2 swings, max skill, no rune
Damage dealt on Copper sun:
-Direct hit=450 300
-SF rune= 600
2/Same Bright with Dbl strike rune
-Direct hit= 900 600
-SF=1200

If we apply KFC theory or my assumtion abt rune x2 damage to calculate , the result prove us to be wrong in both case. Or do the 2 runes work with different formula each? I'm lost.


NOTE: topic has been split from the Devil's Doll discussion

[eldrasidar]

I suspect that it works off of a different formula, given that it is an area attack as opposed to a single target attack, even though it would appear to worded nearly identically otherwise. Certainly it wouldn't make sense for it to be a x2 multiplier, given that in theory it should be a third as powerful as the Devil's Doll rune, which does mimic a multiplier of x2-x3 damage. Presumably it's designed only really pay off if you can hit multiple targets with it. The closest formula I can think of that kinda works is that Spreading Flame might do the following:

(Base Attack + (100 x # of swings)) x possible damage modifier from fury/double strike/song of madness = total damage

That more or less fits the numbers you provide given there's invariably a degree of variance in the amount of damage you actually do.

[Punkaiser]

(Base Attack + (100 x # of swings)) x possible damage modifier from fury/double strike/song of madness = total damage

Don't want to bash your hypothyse but this doesn't fit the result i have:
450 + (100x2) = 650 but SF rune never even reach 630 after several tests, it ranges from 605-623, his damage output seem to be very consistent, unlike Mel's.

I will test again later with +1 swing and some speed stone buff to get bright his 3rd swing.

[eldrasidar]

I said it fit the numbers assuming the numbers you give an error range, of say +/- 25. so starting with his base attack, which is 427, not 450. 427 + 200 = 627 +/- 25 is well within your range. Also keep in mind most enemies have resistance to various elements, so that may explain the lower amount of damage than expected.

[Punkaiser]

If you take 427 to calculate, we must count the B+ damage skill and minus enemy defence or may be Mdef as well or else how could he direct attack for 450?
To simplicify the math, i took the visible number 450 in account because that's the result after math.
Well, if you insist we can take it slow:
B+ skill adds 15% => his pure attack = 427 x 1.15= 491
I hit the foe for 451 so its defence must be= 491 - 451=40 def
now apply your formula, we got:
(491+100x2)= 691 . with this much supposed to deal on the foe = 691 - 40 = 651
so it's not exact unless it attacks on enemy's mdef, not def while bright's rune damage seems to be consistent.
And I don't think it's because of element affinity, because if that was the case, boosting fire skill must improve the damage as well.

[eldrasidar]

to the last point, not necessarily. For instance, having a sword of thunder adds lightning damage onto your attack, but that damage isn't raised by your lightning magic skill, but it will be lowered by an enemy resistant to lightning.

[Punkaiser]

Another bad news, I pumped Bright's speed to 129, he got 3 swings now but his rune now deals a range 807-823
Tonight i will try again to get his 4th swing and see.

[eldrasidar]

well now that you have two sample sets, it would appear trending towards about x 0.8-0.85 damage to all targets. If you can get another swing out of bright and this trend is right, I'd expect to see damage of around 960-1020. I'd be very surprised to see it do up towards 1200, which would be your normal damage with 4 swings.

[Punkaiser]

that's what i had in mind too, a multiplier of 0.8 which is similiar to the one in his unite with gadget for 0.8 times fire based damage something or may be my imagination is running a bit wild.

[Punkaiser]

Alright, now it's clear. His speed has reached 156, he got 4 swings.
i hit 3 Copper Suns and got exact number for thrice:
473 331 231 231 (i got him to lv57 on the way so his power grows a bit)
Spreading flame: 1020 1012 1020

0.8 multiplier for sure hein? What's the deal with "100 fire damage to group of foes"?

[KFCrispy]

I'm still thinking the 100 is used just like Mel's, but we have a 2/3 multiplier.
4 attacks
base attack: 473 + 331 + 231 + 231 = 1266
Rune bonus: 100 + 75 + 56 + 56 = 273
add together = 1539, apply 2/3 multipler = 1026

2 attacks (were you rounding?) { (450 + 300) + (100 + 75) } 2/3 = 682

would have to modify Bright's STR or swings to see different numbers huh? can you reduce him to 1 swing?
with 1 swing, my formula would get 382. The 80% formula would get 458.

[eldrasidar]

KFCrispy, the x 0.8 seems to make more sense in this case, at least practically speaking. with 1 swing, assuming the single attack does 450 damage, if you use your formula you get (450 + 100) x 2/3 = 366, however if it's just x 0.8 then you get, 450 x 0.8 = 360. If do it with the 473 number, you get 382 as opposed to 378.4, not 458. If you multiply 1266 x 0.8 for 4 attacks, you get 1012.8, as opposed to your 1026. at two attacks, you get actually get 616(not sure where 682 came from), as opposed 600, which Punkkaiser actually got. at 3 swings, doing 450, 300, 225 damage, your formula pops out 804, as opposed to 780(both of us being low indicates punkkaiser's bright probably got a strength increase).

Certainly your formula could be what the game actually does, but it's the more complicated of the two formulas, and I don't see it being particularly more accurate. I think realistically, all the x 0.75 damage you do plus multiplying the whole thing by 2/3's, likely just comes out to being an overall modifier of about 0.8 anyway. with the exception of three swings example, from which there's not necessarily enough data to compare, the two formulas pretty much overlap within the same margin of error.

[KFCrispy]

it's only working at the ATK value of a high-level Bright. i like getting the *right* formula, so i will eventually test out different ATK values!
i had read the .8x formula with +100 per swing so i was mixing things up.

[eldrasidar]

I mean you can say that bright gets a single swing that does 300 damage(seems reasonable for bright when you first get him). Your formula gets him doing 266.66 damage, as opposed to 240. Still not a major difference. the tricky thing is that bright starts off in the mid 40's, so he's pretty powerful to begin with. The other tricky thing is that there's always a range of damage that any attack actually does, so with the difference in results between the two formulas being so small, you would probably never be able to definitively say one or the other is correct.

[Punkaiser]

2 attacks (were you rounding?) { (450 + 300) + (100 + 75) } 2/3 = 682
would have to modify Bright's STR or swings to see different numbers huh? can you reduce him to 1 swing?
with 1 swing, my formula would get 382. The 80% formula would get 458.

i notice that bright 's damage is very accurate, almost like constant with not much of variance unlike Mel. If i hit on same monster, 90% of the time i get the same exact number. As for 2nd swing and 3rdswing, using 0.7 multiplier is precise for him as in my test : 473 331 231 231 He did this thrice and none of those numbers ever changed.
well, ask me to power him up with lvling trick or stone trick is possible , but i dont have any cheat device to nerf him down.