[FAQ] The Confusion Behind Nanami *Possible Spoiler*

[lucreborn]

[quote="Black Fang"]Even if she was at lvl 22.....are you sure you know what the "good" ending is lucre? You can bring her down to level 22 and get her killed, screaming out Nanami, but unless there is a serrious glitch in the coding you cannot get the good ending. Its just not possible. The variables for that event to take place have been set and you cannot change them unless you open up the code and do it manually......which would be illegal and you'd have to be EXTREMELLY skilled in several different programming languages. I think you just confused the good ending, with the OK ending.[/quote]


um no. i know the good ending its were...

[spoiler]after the beast rune, u dont run the country, u run off, go to were u made the marking withjowy, keep defending, the rune heals him, you walk down the path, shu shows up, Nanami comes running, cut seen u visit, pilka etc, ending picture jowy hero and nanami. the end[/spoiler]


im telling you it worked just fine. Tell you what ill even start over and try for a lower level to test it again if i have to.

[Black Fang]

im telling you im not lieing.

Noone is accusing you of lying. It is by now a well known fact what needs to be done to save Nanami. Being one that replayed the game about 20 times, I've done numerous things to save her. Thing is she never lived with such low armor. Granted I didn't have her at such a low level, she still didn't survive. Now maybe everyone else is wrong and the DEF rating really needs to be high in proportion with her level, but if so, you seem to be the first one to figure that out.

The second explenation for what happened to your game, could be that it was some kind of glitch, where at a certain point with a certain level, or some requirement Nanami survives, however this option seems very farfetched.

The last thing I can think of and probably the one others are thinking of (namely Killey) is that you plain and simply FORGOT!!! Not lied, just forgot that you actually did put armor on her. Dream Robe is a good possibility since you get it just before she dies. Try the game again or go to that certian save file and replay that part making SURE she does have less than 140ARM before you go down that hallway and try again.

O and on a side note, try not to double-post. Use the edit button to add stuff to your previous message.

[Red Killey]

Actually I did accuse him of lying, and to be honest, I'm still not convinced (partially due to his past history as well). It's just too "convenient" to say that Nanami dies all the time except sometimes when her level shoots up to level 22. Like I said, anywhere after going to S.Window, your characters would normally be around level 22 there.

Let's assume that Nanami died all the time before and was still at level 5 or so. lucreborn said that Nanami survived sometimes (meaning that obviously more than once). Not sure where exactly she survived, but anywhere after S.Window, the monsters would give enough EXP to shoot her level way above 22 for sure. Think about it this way, if you do Matilda Trick, you would probably need to survive twice or so before you reach level 20s. So if Nanami survived against even stronger enemies (anywhere after you go to Toran), her level would definitely shoot up to way more than level 22.

And frankly speaking, Suikoden isn't a hard game, making it hard to purposely kill our own characters. Even with Nanami ignored, you still have 5 strong characters that most likely would almost always kill every single enemy before they got their turn to attack us. And like I said, it's too "convenient" that the enemies seem to always KOed Nanami every single battle with the exception of a few times. Not to mention that every new sidequest got started, her HP would be full again, making it even more troublesome to get her KOed.

But yeah, if you really insist that you're not lying, then I'd assume that you're not lying. It's just quite hard for me to believe you when your explanation isn't that convincing and your past.

[Vextor]

When I tried a game where I kept the hero dead (and hence, kept him at a very low level), I had to attack a fire lizard rune on his weapon and consistently make sure he is dead by the end of battle. This sometimes resulted in the battle being prolonged (such as when Riou missed his attack, or the enemy attacked other characters.)

At times I failed-- such as during a battle with a Neclordia in the Tinto mines.
I was not careful enough, and Riou ended up surviving. This jumped his levels by about 40, sending him to above 50 levels in one battle.

Thus, if Nanami survived any battles after she reached level 22, she would likely have experienced the same "jump" in levels.

[Ced The Lad]

Well, I already posted my results on the matter, and I'm absolutely sure of it's accuracy. (Well mine anyway, for all I know, my friends could be lying, but I trust them). If someone ELSE could please double-check my results, I would greatly appreciate it. My Nanami's defense stat needed to be 121.

[Red Killey]

Sorry, Ced. I don't have any savefile near that so I cannot test it yet. I might do it if I get to replay Suikoden II again.

But what I did was testing things on what lucreborn said. I did some testing with level 8 Mukumuku, level 7 Kinnison, and level 6 Gengen separately (all in a group of 6 people). Against the monsters in Tinto, Matilda, and Two River area, they all need to survive 3 times before their level shoot up above 22. With 2 battles, they are at level 17-18. So if lucreborn really said the truth, his Nanami would only survive 2-3 times throughout the game after the S.Window area. Something that I really doubt because you really have to put some effort to keep on KO-ing a character in a game like Suikoden.

[lucreborn]

i know what i had, i know im not lieing thats all that matters. I dont need some stiffs "Red Killey" approval in order to be right. whats so hard about keeping a KO'd character KO'd not that hard. So whatever i know what i did to save her so i dont want to here it from you no more Red.

And Red i was no where near South window when she "survived sometimes" the only time she survived was when right after i got her. thats all. And once right buy muse. otherwise she was always dead.

[Red Killey]

whats so hard about keeping a KO'd character KO'd not that hard.

It's not *that* hard, but most definitely time consuming especially since you said that the enemies killed her (unlike SARSadmin who used Fire Lizard Rune to make the character do suicide).

You can't control who the enemies would target, so you won't know when Nanami would get attacked. While once she got KOed she only had 1 HP for the next battle (only need to get hit once to get KOed), whenever she started with full HP (if you rest at Inn or start a new sidequest) it would take longer time to KO her. The only way to sort of control who the enemies attack is to use Firefly Rune, but obviously you didn't use that (otherwise you would've mentioned it already).

And Red i was no where near South window when she "survived sometimes" the only time she survived was when right after i got her. thats all. And once right buy muse. otherwise she was always dead.

It's up to the people to believe you or not (I obviously don't). But what you just said on that quote actually proved you to be lying.

Why? Because by surviving sometimes when you just got her and once more around Muse would NOT shoot her level up to level 22. The enemies there are too weak to give enough EXP for her to reach level 22.

[lucreborn]

she got leveled up more than once before muse and just barely almost leveled up again. If you dont beleive me Red thats cool, i respect that. Since your only one of the few friends i have. :S But oh well i would tell you it definitly wasnt worth the effort. Even though shes not in my party I usualy bring her back with a GS code any way. (yes i hate her but its only for the final battle) So i end the argument here. So this thred hopefully wont get locked

[eilie_nigel]

ei, I think that Nanami could be saved once you would just press x fastly. I read that kind of suggestion in a walkthrough. Just a guess though. Not sure if it would work. It doesn't matter what choices Hero would choose just press x fast. Then at the end in Tenzan pass, where you would get the reconciliation ending, Shu will tell Hero about Nanami still being alive and that she is in Kyaro. Well, I don't know if this would work but it's worth a try

[Ced The Lad]

Yes eilie, we know that much, but you see, it's a little bit more tricky than that. Aside from lucreborn (which is not meant as a shot at you my friend, but you agree that you were the only one that did not follow this) you will find that if you take off Nanami's entire armor before the even where she gets shot, you will not trigger the cutscene with Shu and Dr. Huan when you return back to the castle. This will indicate that she did not survive the assault.

So with that as a fact, it's safe to deduct that there must be a certain variable that makes Nanami survive. After much testing from Red Killey, PRGEnthusiast, myself, and many others, we narrowed down the variable to the defense stat. I thought the number was originally 120, but someone dissagreed with me. That's why i went over my file and tested the defense stat (by carrying all this armor with me) to Rockaxe, and tested the stat from 130 all the way to 100. With help from my friends, we agreed on the defense stat of 121. We also figured out that the choices did not matter.

Now, because my friends are not members of Suikosource or suikox.com, it's not enough to convince everyone that information is valid. Having one or two respected members in this board having the same infomation would confirm that it's valid. Until that day comes, my data can only be regarded as strong evidence and not fact.

(At least this is easier to find out than the Pilika trigger)

[Red Killey]

Just one correction on Ced's post above.

you will find that if you take off Nanami's entire armor before the even where she gets shot, you will not trigger the cutscene with Shu and Dr. Huan when you return back to the castle.

I just want to clarify that this is not always happening. It's just sometimes because I've triggered the Huan scene while stripping off Nanami's armor. But I've also failed to trigger Huan scene if I strip off Nanami's armor, and then successfully triggering Huan scene when I put back the armor on that same file.

So yeah, our conclusion so far is that the DEF stat would be one of the some factors that would allow people to save Nanami.

[Black Fang]

I is finally coming back into this discussion.

First and foremost,

Actually I did accuse him of lying,

LOL.

Secondly, I have several save files near and around those times, I will try to kill of Nanami (as well as see how many battles she has to survive to boost up to the appropriate levels).

Well, I already posted my results on the matter, and I'm absolutely sure of it's accuracy. (Well mine anyway, for all I know, my friends could be lying, but I trust them). If someone ELSE could please double-check my results, I would greatly appreciate it. My Nanami's defense stat needed to be 121.

I'll also try and confirm this. I think my Nanami has just over 100 DEF before either Greenhill or Rockaxe. Either way, I'll get to the part JUST before rockaxe and try the stone trick and a few different robes to see just what numbers is the cut off.

I dont need some stiffs "Red Killey" approval in order to be right.

No need for namecalling. These boards are here for us to find out facts about the game, not fight about who is lying or not. I'll test it out myself some time soon and see if what you say holds true. Red accused you of lying because he doesn't see your story as a possibility. Yours is the first case of this "version" of events happening so don't be hostile if you find people don't believe you.

It's up to the people to believe you or not (I obviously don't). But what you just said on that quote actually proved you to be lying.

Why? Because by surviving sometimes when you just got her and once more around Muse would NOT shoot her level up to level 22. The enemies there are too weak to give enough EXP for her to reach level 22.

Actually, by this point I think lucre is trying to prove his point more than the truth. I don't believe he is lying to us because he wants to, but because he actually believes himself that he did what he says he did. In other words he is lying to himself and not admiting it. Either that or a nasty glitch. I don't like to acuse anyone of anything unless I'm pretty certain.

In any case, I'll replay what you say you did and see if the story fits. If there is anything else you did (out of the ordinary) that I should modify for, tell me now.

[Ced The Lad]

Black Fang, not that it should make a difference, but just so everyone knows, you have the PAL version, correct? Because I think there was a slight difference in the Fury and double-strike runes in these versions, so there could be a difference here too.

[Harukaze]

Can anyone do a quick summary of lucreborn's claims? If nothing else I'd like to tackle the mathematics behind the concept.