[Mods] Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

If you are stuck in the Dunan Unification Wars; or wish for more details on the gameplay systems, this is the place.
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psychedelist
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by psychedelist »

Now that you say it, i remember some crashes happening in the castle overworld area too, it involved Family unite too. It happened to Zero twice too, but he wasn't surprised by them, sounded like he's no stranger to such crashes. Unless it happens every single time when using Family (without loading a savestate), I don't think it's anything that's caused by the mod directly. Not like you had a reason to use Family in random fights in the original game, so no one would know. Unfortunately, i don't have a slightest idea on how to try to fix these things. Again, making an in-game save and resetting the game might reduce the chance to crash.

Sorry to hear that bad things are happening right now... i don't know anything about the game making saves disappear, usually such things are emulator-related.
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Pyriel
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by Pyriel »

Out of curiosity, the code you have in the header is for in-battle tweaks, right? One issue I've run into in the past with post-battle cheat codes I made was choosing a bad value as a filter. BP0_SEC.BIN had a value identical to AFT.BIN in the same load location. The write following went ahead when it shouldn't have, and that resulted in the game locking up when a particular enemy in one zone did a specific attack after the first round.

This sounds pretty similar to me, and none of the speed-runners around here have ever brought up random crashes related to that unite, but they have brought a couple of broken scripts, and other issues to my attention. I find it a bit weird to think it's never been mentioned, since that unite is well-used in most speed-run routes, at least early on.
psychedelist
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by psychedelist »

Yeah, the header is for a few battle things. But Family doesn't jump there, of all unites only Servant (Sierra) would jump there. For what it's worth, only the castle overworld area gave me relatively common crashes. In speedruns, if you get into a battle there, you almost always run away on first turn.

I'm not sure how much the crashes were related to Family. On Zero streams, i think they happened w/o Family, but could be wrong. I feel like if anything, Family might be one of the things that triggers some other problem specific to that area, rather than the attack is glitchy by itself. And for what it's worth, the problem is gone for a while after hard resetting the game. I noticed that after playing for a long time w/o resetting, the game gets more and more likely to crash after a lot of magic spells and battles (and you have a lot of it now in the mod). And for some reason, this "spoiling" process seems to be the fastest in that castle overworld area.

Another thing, if you keep loading a save-state when the game is already in such a "corrupted" state (but before battle), then it'll crash 100% of the time in the battles, so it's like some RAM area is permanently corrupted, rather than a completely random issue.

Edit: did some testing. Took a clean version (bugfix patch), middle-game save, ran around the castle overworld area, fighting with a mix of auto and Family (defend on rest). No issues. Then increased HP, attack Tech and added the statuses to Flyers and DarkBunnys (Bucket and Skull), no issues. Then started spamming Kindness Drops every turn, got a crash almost immediately, after only 2 or 3 spells. Header was untouched on this version, and there were no jumps to it. So, i'm inclined to blame everything on the magic, especially Kindness Drops. In original, you barely ever had to use magic outside of boss battles. And Kindness Drops? Not even on boss battles, since Great Blessing was always more than enough.
dune
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by dune »

Wow! This is amazing. Back in 2013 I think I posted on Suikosource forum for a hard mode. A few years ago someone made an attempt, but it was badly balanced and didn't allow for a S1 save. And now you come up with this. It looks amazing. I'll definitely be finding a way to play soon with your adjustments.

One question out of curiosity: why did you use the NA version instead of the PAL version as a base?

Another question which might be easy for you to answer since you played the game recently, but for me this knowledge disappeared in the back of my mind after all these years. In your wonderfully extensive guide you write Don’t pick up collectibles that aren’t missable until you have the castle. Inventory space is valuable. Once you have the castle, don’t buy/collect statue plans till the end game for the same reasons. Can you maybe give some tips as to what missables you are exactly referring to? Is it possible for you to provide a list of what items you recommend leaving behind until later?

Another question: did you take into account the Recipe #34 and Recipe #12 glitch? I saw you increased the drop rate for Recipe #34, but I couldn't find Recipe #12 back in your excel.

Another question: with removing the drop rewards from regular enemies, what is the incentive to actually battle them? Is it only for the potch to buy equipment and upgrade weapons?

Once again thank you very much for your effort, it looks awesome.
psychedelist
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by psychedelist »

Thanks, glad you think it's worth trying. I'm still working on improving some things and fixing some balance issues based on the feedback i already got from guys.
One question out of curiosity: why did you use the NA version instead of the PAL version as a base?
It's what i had and i know that the bugfix patch works with it, i thought it was the most commonly used version anyway.

About the missable items, it's a recipe from Huan after recruiting Tuta, and a sound set from Elsa, both are in Muse. On a related note, there's a good recipe in Greenhill's rare finds, if you want to hunt for it early in the game, it's best to do it while you still have access to the fort.

The recipe bugs, and many other bugs, are fixed by Pyriel's bugfix patch, which my mod is based on.
Another question: with removing the drop rewards from regular enemies, what is the incentive to actually battle them? Is it only for the potch to buy equipment and upgrade weapons?
Not all loot is removed, only the most OP ones (plus few generic ones from aesthetic reasons). The main reason to fight is getting the levels; money and loot are extra (which can be improved with specific runes). Also running away is hard, sometimes you may find it's easier to fight than try to run away, especially early in the game.
Last edited by psychedelist on Thu May 21, 2020 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Pyriel
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by Pyriel »

With the bugfix patch applied, all the reasons to prefer the PAL English version pretty much disappear. The music is fixed and all the gibberish trade tips are translated. There might be one or two lines of untranslated text that the PAL localization team caught, and that I haven't patched in the NA version yet, but I don't think so.

I still haven't ported all the bug fixes to the PAL versions yet (the Tinto Glitch is the only game-breaking one I can think of), so by using NA you get more fixes. And it runs at 60 Hz by default, which is a nice bonus. Albeit a bonus not many people will really notice unless they play one right after the other.
dune
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by dune »

Thanks for both replies!

Psychedelist, am I correct in assuming that any monsters not in your excel guide retains their original drop items and percentage?

I guess playing your rebalanced version needs to be done with a different frame of mind than the original version in regards of battles. Gaining levels is actually important now :)

Tonight I'll be trying your mod; would you like to know about any bugs or imbalances I encounter?

For me personally Suikoden 2 is the best RPG. All the pieces fit, (story, sound, graphics, non-battle gameplay elements) except for the difficulty/balance. Thank you for doing this.

@Pyriel, thanks for explaining. I've only ever played the PAL version, and I know at least the disc-only version is better than the NTSC-version.
psychedelist
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by psychedelist »

Psychedelist, am I correct in assuming that any monsters not in your excel guide retains their original drop items and percentage?
Correct, same for enemy resistances, although i'm currently expanding the latter one to list all enemies for convenience, even those w/o changes.
I guess playing your rebalanced version needs to be done with a different frame of mind than the original version in regards of battles. Gaining levels is actually important now :)
But not like you have to grind for the levels. When you start getting less than say 200 exp per one 6-enemy battle, you're at a good level and ready for the boss (provided your party is at least decently optimized for it).
Tonight I'll be trying your mod; would you like to know about any bugs or imbalances I encounter?
Sure, i'll appreciate any feedback. Current biggest imbalances are Luc and Humphrey still being OP. Clay Guardian, Violence, Storm Warning and Spark are subjects to nerfs as well. Current biggest bug that carries over from the original game is that Kindness Drops can cause serious glitches (usually loud noise) and crash the game. If you or enemy use the spell, the game can get into unstable, likely to crash state, so try to save the game (proper save, not savestate) as soon as possible, hard-reset the emulator and load the save.
For me personally Suikoden 2 is the best RPG. All the pieces fit, (story, sound, graphics, non-battle gameplay elements) except for the difficulty/balance. Thank you for doing this.
Well said, i felt the same so i had to do this.
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faospark
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by faospark »

im just thinking lets a branch mod/patch regarding your fixes for character recruitment
psychedelist
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by psychedelist »

For early Tessai, open the game in a hex editor and replace this byte sequence:
00 00 03 80 01 04 97 40 21 01 02 18
with this:
00 00 00 00 00 04 97 40 21 01 02 18
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faospark
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by faospark »

psychedelist wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 2:17 am For early Tessai, open the game in a hex editor and replace this byte sequence:
00 00 03 80 01 04 97 40 21 01 02 18
with this:
00 00 00 00 00 04 97 40 21 01 02 18
oh wow thanks for the quick response. i was having trouble looking for teh byete sequence earlier then i realize im editing the pbp version of my file.
If its not much to ask. would also share the byte sequences for Hoi, Genshu and Gantetsu,
psychedelist
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by psychedelist »

Hoi (i think the original's was better plot-wise because now you're able to get him immediately after defeating Kiba, and Hoi is already aware of it in the dialog; i wanted him available earlier only because he serves a specific purpose in the mod, but as far as original goes, post-Luca condition was fine in my opinion)
04 97 40 18 47 02 21 01 03 03 76 08 FF FE 00 00 1D 02 04 FF FE 00 00 00 1D 02 08 FF FE 00 00 00 01 2F 30 02 B9 D2 09 02 18 47 02 21 01 03 03 76 08 FF FE
->
04 97 40 18 47 02 21 01 03 00 00 00 FF FE 00 00 1D 02 04 FF FE 00 00 00 1D 02 08 FF FE 00 00 00 01 2F 30 02 B9 D2 09 02 18 47 02 21 01 03 00 00 00 FF FE


Genshu
03 05 08 FF FE 00 21 01 04 04 17 08 05 08 FF FE 00 00 21 01 04
->
01 05 08 FF FE 00 21 01 02 04 17 08 05 08 FF FE 00 00 21 01 02

lowering Genshu's weapon requirement
81 08 62 90 00 00 00 00 0E 00 42 2C 04 00 40 14
->
81 08 62 90 00 00 00 00 0C 00 42 2C 04 00 40 14


Gantetsu
04 CA 04 04 5B 20 05 09 18 46 02 FF FE 00 00 00 03 CA 04 04 5B 20 04 5B 40 18 46 02 05 09 FF FE 03 CA 04 04 5B 20 03 5B 40 18 46 02 05 09
->
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FE 00 00 00 04 CA 04 04 5B 20 04 5B 40 18 46 02 05 09 FF FE 04 CA 04 04 5B 20 03 5B 40 18 46 02 05 09


LC Chan during the first Matilda visit (for those playing the mod, not in the current version but will be in the next version)
21 02 02 10 00 44 04 1F 02 04 D6 40 FF FE 00 00
->
21 02 02 10 00 9F 04 1F 02 04 D6 40 FF FE 00 00
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faospark
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by faospark »

Much appreciated. thanks for sharing the bytes

I was just thinking though the case of the 2 octopus Rulodia and Abizboah. is it possible for them to be freed as stars and just be extra recruitable characters?
Like if you activate their respective recruitment ar/cb/gs codes and you have already recruited Feather and Sigfried. the game just basically treats them like the flying squirel bunch. you can actually even use them in battle side by side with either sigfriend and feather with no side effect in the game

Addendum:
Maybe additional Listening Crystals received from Beaudeux and make them available for recruitment post receiving forgiver sign
psychedelist
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by psychedelist »

I don't know the implementation details on those but i remember reading someone said that cheating in extra listening crystals didn't make the octopus appear. I wouldn't want to change them, because what's next, both Valeria and Kasumi? Having alternatives is good for the replay value. But if one feels like having everyone in the team, there are the codes to do that.
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faospark
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by faospark »

I did not mean it that way. just a suggestion perhaps. still thanks man for sharing the bytes. have great day :)
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