[Mods] Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

If you are stuck in the Dunan Unification Wars; or wish for more details on the gameplay systems, this is the place.
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OneRune
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by OneRune »

I'm just jumping in here because I love Suikoden II, but unfortunately I don't have a PC to play this mod.

One thing I would've liked to see more of in the original game is the use of Status Effects. I feel like status-defending equipment, runes, and other items are basically obsolete because there aren't many occurrences of status attacks other than the Balloon by the elves, poison by multiple enemies (Poison should do a percentage of total or current HP instead of just the 10 hp damage or whatever) and the final boss attack. Not sure if this is implemented into the mod but just a suggestion.
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ninjaluc79
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by ninjaluc79 »

Status effects actually see a lot of use in this mod based on my most recent playthrough. I had to cut it short just before the North Window mission though, I don't really mind the status effects, it's just that enemies hit way too hard and counter way more often than in the original, this being a hard mode mod and all.
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psychedelist
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by psychedelist »

JonJon wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:42 am About stacking, does clay guardian stack too? Example, using it twice one same char or using it after mother earth.
Clay Guardian doesn't stack with itself, but stacks with Mother Earth.
ninjaluc79 wrote: I am loading my game from save files so almost every monster data update just fine, except for Mr. Venus in the Sindar Ruins. What I meant by "protect data" who protects who (e.g. Nanami takes damage for Riou if he is at low health) and by "berserk data" who gets Berserk when certain characters die (e.g. Nanami gets Berserk when Riou dies). After a while of playtesting my own mod up to the "Saving Private Teresa" Greenhill mission, I kinda realize now why you didn't like how enemies just deal 1-3 damage with enough DEF in the original. Also realized that lower level magic in the original is too underpowered while the higher level magic is too overpowered.
For this berserk/protect data, look for two instances of this data:
01 50 01 12 50 12 12 50 52 49 08 07 09 0A 11 34 34 11 13 15 14 15 1E 1A 1D 1C 1C 1D 29 2A 01 2E 39 23 23 39 4F 31 4F 4A 4A 31 31 4A 02 37 04 05 08 05 0C 05 11 05 12 05 13 05 14 05 17 05 18 05 19 05 27 05 29 05 2B 05 2D 05 2E 05 37 05 39 05 3C 05 44 05 49 05 4B 30 4C 30 4D 30 4E 30 00 00 00 01 01 02 02 03 03 04 04 05 05 00 01 12 50 12 07 08 1A 1E 21 20 39 23 2A 29 4F 31 4F 4A 3B 3A 3C 3A 45 44 4B 30 4C 30 4D 30 4E 30 02 37 00 00

These are pairs of char ids. First half of it is berserk, other is protect, or the other way around, i forget.

I just remembered something about Mr.Venus. You are editing them with my editor, right? One Mr.Venus instance is probably impeded by having an unrelated 304-byte data chunk related to the iso format (probably). You need to put a value to the "offset" field of editor to make it skip the irrelevant data. The exact value is easy to figure out by experimentation, you just try numbers until the monster data starts to look right. Also, two enemies are impossible to find in the editor because their names are also interrupted by that 304-byte thing, making them unsearchable. Those enemies are HollyBoy from Matilda Forest and a Commander from L'Renouille. To edit them, you have to know their exact physical address and insert it in the corresponding field.

In the original, you can get infinite copies of the op runes (except Cyclone and Exertion) as monster loot or rare finds, Fury and DB very early, DS, Mother Earth and Flowing middle game, others later in the game. Obviously this is not how i preferred it, but anyone is free to do it as they wish.
JonJon wrote: Btw, was Jowy supposed to be at 20 HP and no MP when fighting Gorudo? Cause first time i battled him Jowy came with full HP and MP, then i put solitude rune on Riou and now everytime i face him jowy starts this way. I managed to beat him but it still, seems like a bug to me.
Sorry, never had it (3 modded playthroughs), no idea what happened to Jowy here.
OneRune wrote: One thing I would've liked to see more of in the original game is the use of Status Effects. I feel like status-defending equipment, runes, and other items are basically obsolete because there aren't many occurrences of status attacks other than the Balloon by the elves, poison by multiple enemies (Poison should do a percentage of total or current HP instead of just the 10 hp damage or whatever) and the final boss attack. Not sure if this is implemented into the mod but just a suggestion.
Oh i did make extensive use of statuses, many enemies inflict them now, even many unites do (onto enemies or even characters). Poison is indeed %-based now.
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ninjaluc79
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by ninjaluc79 »

psychedelist wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:32 am
I just remembered something about Mr.Venus. You are editing them with my editor, right? One Mr.Venus instance is probably impeded by having an unrelated 304-byte data chunk related to the iso format (probably). You need to put a value to the "offset" field of editor to make it skip the irrelevant data. The exact value is easy to figure out by experimentation, you just try numbers until the monster data starts to look right. Also, two enemies are impossible to find in the editor because their names are also interrupted by that 304-byte thing, making them unsearchable. Those enemies are HollyBoy from Matilda Forest and a Commander from L'Renouille. To edit them, you have to know their exact physical address and insert it in the corresponding field.

In the original, you can get infinite copies of the op runes (except Cyclone and Exertion) as monster loot or rare finds, Fury and DB very early, DS, Mother Earth and Flowing middle game, others later in the game. Obviously this is not how i preferred it, but anyone is free to do it as they wish.
Yeah, I have seen some weird data on some of the monsters in the Bestiary such as the Zombies in North Window and at least a couple of others I forgot. Other monsters have duplicate data even though there doesn't seem to be a reason for them to have dupes like say, the Highlands or the Zombies, do.

Personally, I am not sure where to place the physical runes or how to balance them for late game in my mod. I thought of restricting the physical runes to only one copy each and on either hand slots so the Head slots can only be used for magic and other runes. I also wanted to see more usage of other effect runes such as Balance (for spamming unites that unbalance participants) and Firefly (for tanks) in the mid game for my mod (preferably just before the Luca fight).

One last thing: Where do I find the initial equipment and levels data? Is there any resource I can use to check in-game data? At this rate, I might have to use your mod as base for my own mod. Inflating enemy stats and rebalancing everyone is a great start for me, it's just that I am not sure where to go from here.
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OneRune
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by OneRune »

Personally, I am not sure where to place the physical runes or how to balance them for late game in my mod. I thought of restricting the physical runes to only one copy each and on either hand slots so the Head slots can only be used for magic and other runes. I also wanted to see more usage of other effect runes such as Balance (for spamming unites that unbalance participants) and Firefly (for tanks) in the mid game for my mod (preferably just before the Luca fight).
The problem with Command runes and Unites in the core game is that it can be more beneficial to stack a character with damage-boosting runes. Also, some weapon runes don't work with Unites. If it is possible to change this, that would be cool.

Balance would see lots of use if the Unbalanced status was more common. Medicine would be nice if it didn't interrupt your Attack.
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ninjaluc79
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by ninjaluc79 »

OneRune wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:42 pm
Personally, I am not sure where to place the physical runes or how to balance them for late game in my mod. I thought of restricting the physical runes to only one copy each and on either hand slots so the Head slots can only be used for magic and other runes. I also wanted to see more usage of other effect runes such as Balance (for spamming unites that unbalance participants) and Firefly (for tanks) in the mid game for my mod (preferably just before the Luca fight).
The problem with Command runes and Unites in the core game is that it can be more beneficial to stack a character with damage-boosting runes. Also, some weapon runes don't work with Unites. If it is possible to change this, that would be cool.

Balance would see lots of use if the Unbalanced status was more common. Medicine would be nice if it didn't interrupt your Attack.
In that case, nerfing Command Runes in addition to restricting them only to specific rune slots might be the best way to nerf physicals. It may still be preferable to magic because it's unlimited but at least you can't just stack physical damage boosts and expect to cheese everything with them.

I didn't think of Unbalance that way but status effects from enemies are still a good way to increase difficulty.

What's bad about Medicine is not only it interrupts Attack on Auto (Is this also the case on Manual?), it only uses up Medicines and it prioritizes the lowest tier available Medicines available if you have both Medicine and Mega Medicine on the user's equipment. Using foods is so much better because not only some of them heal more than Mega Meds at lower cost, they also clear negative status effects and give additional buffs, especially in this mod where Boost is made so much better than in the original.
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OneRune
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by OneRune »

In that case, nerfing Command Runes in addition to restricting them only to specific rune slots might be the best way to nerf physicals. It may still be preferable to magic because it's unlimited but at least you can't just stack physical damage boosts and expect to cheese everything with them.

I didn't think of Unbalance that way but status effects from enemies are still a good way to increase difficulty.

What's bad about Medicine is not only it interrupts Attack on Auto (Is this also the case on Manual?), it only uses up Medicines and it prioritizes the lowest tier available Medicines available if you have both Medicine and Mega Medicine on the user's equipment. Using foods is so much better because not only some of them heal more than Mega Meds at lower cost, they also clear negative status effects and give additional buffs, especially in this mod where Boost is made so much better than in the original.
Command Runes don't need any nerfing, IMO. They should be buffed - same for unites - or runes like Double-Beat should be much harder to acquire. This is why three-slotters like Hai Yo and Killey with Double-Beat, Fury and Double-Strike runes make the game too easy. Unites are basically worthless too in late game. A buffed solo-character can usually do more damage than if you were to waste them in a Unite.

The Medicine Rune will override a manual "Attack" as well as an Auto. It would be cool if Rune worked like "Auto Potion" in Final Fantasy Tactics; the rune does not override an action, but is a reaction to something happening (being dealt damage.) Or, if it worked like one of the items that recovered HP after each round.
DenisFps
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by DenisFps »

Hi everyone guys, i started playing this mod and i got to the fight with luca blight but i am stuck here i tried with the tips on the forum but i can not get it xD is there any specific guide or a youtube video to check, plz help me i really want to finish this game mod.
PS i dont know if it is a bug but when i use Silent lake to prevent luca from using magic nothing happens he can still use magic but i can not
psychedelist
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by psychedelist »

ninjaluc79 wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:23 pm
One last thing: Where do I find the initial equipment and levels data? Is there any resource I can use to check in-game data? At this rate, I might have to use your mod as base for my own mod. Inflating enemy stats and rebalancing everyone is a great start for me, it's just that I am not sure where to go from here.
Sorry for the delay, in case you still need it, initial eq data is stored in 5 or 6 places across the rom, and it's best to change each of them whenever updating a character. You can find the data easily if you know what the character's initial equipment currently is. Use "Other" items as point of reference. Those as stored as Id1 Modifier1 Id2 Modifier2 Id3 Modifier3 (6 bytes). So for example if a character's initial eq's all 3 "Other" items were "Medicine x6", you'd need to search the following string: 01 06 01 06 01 06. The data that goes right before these bytes is ids for armor, shield, runes.

For example, Viki's data in the mod is this: 00 1E 0F 4A 00 17 00 73 65 50 10 00 00

Initial level is set by a script command: 73 charid level (3 bytes). That is usually not enough to find it in the rom reliably. What i did was taking some dialog from the area where they join, searching for that dialog in the original game's unpacked files, then searching for the level command within that particular area file (where the dialog and joining happens), which narrows the search area greatly. Then seeing how the script data near the command looks like, i can reliably find it in the rom.
Hi everyone guys, i started playing this mod and i got to the fight with luca blight but i am stuck here i tried with the tips on the forum but i can not get it xD is there any specific guide or a youtube video to check, plz help me i really want to finish this game mod.
PS i dont know if it is a bug but when i use Silent lake to prevent luca from using magic nothing happens he can still use magic but i can not
If you're still stuck, maybe send me the save file, maybe i'll be able to record something (can't guarantee it though). His fire attacks were made physical in the mod, that's why Silent Lake doesn't work, Fire resistance still works though.
adangerousdom
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Re: [Mods] Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by adangerousdom »

Sorry I'm quite a newb with the mod scene. Is there anywhere I could download the game with the mod patched to it already? Thanks in advance.
Rizen
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Re: [Mods] Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by Rizen »

will be streaming this on twitch in the next week or so. RizenGT ive completed Ver1.0 of this.. going for the latest version. feel free to say hi backseat gaming allowed!
MistressJeane
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Re: [Mods] Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by MistressJeane »

Image
Love this mod. I think it needs MP restore food and bag expansion
psychedelist
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Re: [Mods] Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by psychedelist »

For extra magic, scrolls are the thing to use. Bag size was taken into account for balancing. If you could carry more, then end game areas and bosses would have to be made even harder. I wish storage expansion was possible, but it's not simple at all. That "?" symbol surprises me, i don't remember it being there, hope the rune was acquired without issues. Nice win, and what's also funny for me, i remember having Viki in front left position and McDohl in back right position in this fight too.
Rizen
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Re: [Mods] Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by Rizen »

Theres a potential weird glitch in the game where 4 NPCs go missing. This happened to me just before fighting Luca, but were unsure of the cause, here's the fix...

https://youtu.be/9ps4yXl76Ls

also, if you do run into this bug, please reply on the video, or let us know, it could help us find the cause and potentially fix the issue.
MistressJeane
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Re: [Mods] Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Post by MistressJeane »

Rizen wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:18 am Theres a potential weird glitch in the game where 4 NPCs go missing. This happened to me just before fighting Luca, but were unsure of the cause, here's the fix...

https://youtu.be/9ps4yXl76Ls

also, if you do run into this bug, please reply on the video, or let us know, it could help us find the cause and potentially fix the issue.
This happens to me as well after liberating greenhill. Teresa is missing and greyed out on tablet. The solution was load save before golden wolf.
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