ROM Crashing Please Help!

[stilettostiletto]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the boards but have been playing Suikoden since the early 2000's. Anyways, I've been playing Suikoden II on an emulator (PCSX-R for Mac) and I'm at the part where you go to Greenhill to save Teresa. After the part where Flik "saves" Nina from the Highland soldier, when I go up the stairs to head to the Academy, the game just cuts to the ending sequence showing the fates of the 108 Stars of Destiny. I've tried everything I could think of, including different ROMs and emulators to no avail. Am I just screwed here? Any help that someone could provide me would be great - if someone would be willing to boot up my save and try to get past that part that would be amazing. Thanks guys!

[Pyriel]

Reloading your save doesn't help, and it happens consistently? I know it sucks for you, but it's a bit of a Christmas present for me, if so. If you can, just upload your entire memcard file, or PM me and I'll give you my e-mail address. I'll see if I can figure out where it's going wrong.

[Omnigamer]

Yes, please upload your memory card file. There were distant reports of this same bug, but nobody has been able to reproduce it or even confirm it. Solving this one would be great for a variety of reasons. If you can think back, did you do anything unusual while saving, such as closing the emulator or resetting? Did you use any gameshark/action replay codes in your playthrough? Did you manually modify your save file at all?

[Pyriel]

You know, now that I'm actually thinking about it, I wonder if this is the same issue as the Tinto bug. It would be odd if it was baked into the save file in that case. Unless it's something where the actual script for the in-town scenario loads along side the script for the academy, but if you go into the Inn to save the wrong file overlays it, and reloading a save made at that point can only perpetuate the problem. If that's the case, I'm not entirely sure offhand how it could be fixed. There has to be an event flag that could serve as a cutoff, but finding one might devilishly tricky.

I'd have to go back through my listings (maybe after the Christmas parties end), but I'm fairly certain Greenhill is area H and that it's one of the two or three that had to have area/scenario files broken out because they approached the size limit during translation.

[stilettostiletto]

Hey guys thanks for the replies and interest! First off, yes, I've reloaded the save file many, many times with the same result. Secondly, I didn't do anything unusual while saving and I did not manually modify the save file at all (my programming knowledge is basically none). I used some Gameshark codes intermittently throughout, which included the codes for enemies dropping first, second, and third items, the max money code, I used an item modifier code to get some double beat runes, a fury rune, and a speed ring, and I also used some of the EXP modifier codes to increase my levels a little bit. these are

D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D6 2402
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D4 000?

where ? = 1, 2, 3,... for 2x, 4x, 8x, etc.

Strange enough, I found the game clock throughout the playthrough to reset to around 7 hours when using some of these codes (without using the clock modifier code, although I did use one of the clock modifier codes to reset the items in the rare finds at the item shop in Greenhill) - I think it was the enemy drop code but am unsure.

Finally, how and where do I upload my memory card file? When I try to attach it to the post, it says invalid file extension. Thanks guys, Merry Christmas!

*EDIT: So I just changed the file extension to .docx, it should work if you just change it to .mcr when you download it. Thanks for taking the time to do this I really do appreciate it. It's cool the Suikoden community is still alive and kicking! I saved AFTER saving Nina because I was sick of going through the dialogue. Anyways, just run up the stairs to the academy and you will see what happens.

[Omnigamer]

The first time this happened, where was the last location that you saved? Was it at the Greenhill inn right before doing the Nina scene? Or was it earlier on?

I have your file, and sure enough, it starts into the ending sequence when you enter that area. Now that we at least have a place to start, we can trace through and figure out what exactly causes it to go screwy.

In other reports of this bug, it happens at different story points and even from different entrances. I believe one was during the Greenhill liberation and happened from entering at the top of the map. Either way, the end result was the same. If this ends up being something that can be reproduced, I'd very much be interested in messing around with it.

[stilettostiletto]

The first time it happened the last place I saved was indeed at the Greenhill inn before the Nina scene (I have that save file on a different memory card). So I tried to save after viewing the scene with Nina (the save file I uploaded) and it still did it. I also have a save file at the Cave of the Wind after getting the Red Flower (in the middle of recruiting Hix and Tengaar) so I suppose I could try to play from there and see if it still happens.

[s21]

@Omnigamer, will this counts as an any% speedrun strats? :p

[Pyriel]

Yeah, apparently when I did test runs I did pretty much the same thing as your second try, rescuing Nina and then going to save at the Inn. I had no trouble. When you created this one after seeing it crash when you saved before Nina, did you restart from that first save, or did you start again from an earlier point? Either way you could have repeated actions that might have triggered this, but if you used an earlier save from before you even entered Greenhill, I'm a bit worried that it might be corruption that occurs much earlier.

Anyway, I don't know if this can be addressed in a short time, so falling back to an earlier save would be your best bet if you're in a hurry to play. It might also help narrow down the window for when the issue is occurring, if you successfully get into the academy.

This thing causes some weird glitches with sound. I'm getting battle music, and sounds of swords clashing, and other things I don't recall being part of the ending sequence. The way it's happening, it seems like the file is loaded during the screen transition.

[stilettostiletto]

Yeah I restarted from that first save, not an earlier point. I'm about to try to start from Cave of the Wind and see if it still happens.i also had an issue during the second duel with Amada (to recruit him) where the game would freeze during the beginning of the duel animation, or it would freeze and then reboot after I would leave that section of Radat. I was able to get past that by reloading continuously.

[Pyriel]

OK, I was able to recreate the problem in my clean save, and I believe it can be fixed in yours with a simple code.
3006AEFE 0000

There's a script in area module VE06.BIN at 0x801668C4 that appears to be responsible for dropping you into the ending like that. The problem manifests in a script at 0x80165400 that runs the command 0x3 0x27 0x2, which I translate to FlagTest(FlagOffset = 0x27, Mask = 2), which would test the byte at 0x8006AEFE to see if bit 1 is on. In your save that byte has 0x6 in it, which causes the "background" check script to fire its event script. How on this green Earth those flags got set in the first place may take an awful lot of searching. Any earlier saves you can upload may help pin it down. If you've already gotten back to this point with more success, do let us know, as it would at least narrow the window to sometime after the Cave of Wind.

Oh, and we might need to evaluate any codes you used. That general area is where all the save data is, so it could be an off-by-one issue in a code.

[stilettostiletto]

It worked! You are a god! But yeah, you're basically speaking a different language here brother, I have no clue what any of that means haha! Can I remove the code after I am past that part? Tomorrow I will try to start from the Cave of the Wind (Christmas festivities prevented me from doing that today) and see if it still glitches. Here are the codes I was using, copied and pasted directly from the .cht file:

[*Enemies Always Drop First Item]
D002E09A 1040
8002E152 1000
D002E09A 1040
8002E154 0096

[*Enemies Always Drop Second Item]
D002E09A 1040
8002E152 1000
D002E09A 1040
8002E154 0098

[*Enemies Always Drop Third Item]
D002E09A 1040
8002E152 1000
D002E09A 1040
8002E154 009A

[*Max Money]
8006A4F8 423F
8006A4FA 000F

[*No Random Battles]
D002566C 0000
8002566E 0000

[*Always Roll A 6]
80023F62 0006

[*Quick Level Gain]
50005224 0000
80069894 03E7

[*Always Catch Fish]
80023FF6 1964
80024242 19C8

[*Always Climb In Rope Game]
80024AD8 0006

[*2x EXP Multiplier]
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D6 2402
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D4 0001

[*4x EXP Multiplier]
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D6 2402
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D4 0002

[*8x EXP Multiplier]
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D6 2402
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D4 0003

[*16x EXP Multiplier]
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D6 2402
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D4 0004

[*64x EXP Multiplier]
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D6 2402
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D4 0006

[*128x EXP Multiplier]
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D6 2402
D002E3D4 F809
8002E3D4 0007

[*Time is 10:58:00 (Clive/Lakewest]
8006AA52:000A
8006AA54:003A
8006AA56:0000

[*Fury Rune in Riou’s Other Slot 1]
300698AD 0057
300698AE 0020

[*Double-Beat Rune in Riou’s Other Slot 1]
300698AD 0041
300698AE 0020

[*Speed Ring in Riou’s Other Slot 1]
300698AD 0051
300698AE 0010

I didn't use all these codes (quick level gain, always catch fish and climb, always roll a 6, and no random battles were never activated, but they were in my list). However, sometimes PCSX-R was screwy I think because at one point I had something replaced with the double-beat rune when I had never activated the code. Here are the other save files I was using on this play through (change file extension to .mcr).

[Omnigamer]

@s21, if there's a consistent way found to perform it, this would become the "new" any%. The current any% category would still exist and probably be the main category still, but would be called "any% no GH warp" or something like that.

I went through and tested for how 0x8006AEFE changes during a normal ending sequence.

-Starts at 0. Stays at 0 until the end of the scene with Riou walking to the head of the table at Jowston Hill, where it is set to 1.
-Gets set to 3 after the second scene at Muse, with Riou in the Mayor's Office.
-Remains set to 3 during scene at Two River with Ridley. I don't remember if this sequence changes or not depending on your Tinto choices.
-Changes to 7 at the end of the Greenhill scene.
-Changes to F after the Muse Wall scene, stays that way until the end
-For whatever reason, it also gives you the True Ending picture after the credits.

I tried poking the value to various things and traveling to the locations. At least in the above cases, nothing happens aside from at Greenhill. A small oddity occurs in Two River, but only right after you defeat Pest Rat. Ridley and a bunch of Kobolds will already be standing in place swinging swords, just as in the ending scene. However, after the scene it just sets you back at the entrance to continue the story normally. Entering at any other time or from other entrances doesn't seem to cause this behavior.

I also tested your save; the flag address is 0 at Cave of Wind, so you should be set if you play from there. It also means that something you did between that sidequest and going to Greenhill is what caused it to change.

[Pyriel]

But yeah, you're basically speaking a different language here brother, I have no clue what any of that means haha!

Yeah, the technical stuff is for the benefit of Omnigamer and anyone else interested in investigating. If the root cause of this is a bug that can be encountered during normal play, I'd like to fix it, and I guess Omni would like to exploit it. It sounds like you may have had some issues with incorrect codes, or the emulator hiccuping on them, so we can't rule out some sort of external tom-foolery, unfortunately. It's too bad you weren't recording an LP or something, so we could see exactly what you did in almost every detail.

Anyway, I started chasing back through the scripts a bit ago. I could only find one that would have set bit 1 in that set of flags on. It's in VC09.BIN at 0x801678B4. It's predecessor, trigger script does:

Code: Select all

RAM:8016623C BGS_MuseEnding: .byte    3               # DATA XREF: RAM:80167EC4o

RAM:8016623D                 .byte 0x27  # '

RAM:8016623E                 .byte    1

RAM:8016623F                 .byte    4

RAM:80166240                 .byte 0x27  # '

RAM:80166241                 .byte    2

RAM:80166242                 .byte    1

RAM:80166243                 .byte 0x7D  # }

RAM:80166244                 .byte 0x7D  # }

RAM:80166245                 .byte    2

RAM:80166246                 .byte 0x1D

RAM:80166247                 .byte 0x1D

RAM:80166248                 .byte 0xFF

RAM:80166249                 .byte 0xFE  # ¦

That is:
FlagIsSet(0x27, 1)
FlagNotSet(0x27, 2)
PlayerInPos(MinX=0x7D, MaxX=0x7D, MinY=0x1D, MaxY=0x1D)

So this is presumably the Muse interior map, looking for Riou in Mayor's office during the ending events.

I only found one script that sets bit 0, and that's probably the Jowston phase of the ending. The script there only does FlagIsSet(0x19, 1) followed by FlagNotSet(0x27, 1), so it would be fairly easy to satisfy the conditions. Looking at your save from just before the glitch, you don't have 1 in that byte. I don't find a script that unsets it. I need to check your earlier save to verify, but it seems unlikely that there's a mistake in a script causing this. It could be some other glitch, or it's possible that everyone who encountered this used a particular code, cheat file, or set of codes that somehow caused it.

In the script I pasted above, it might be worth standing on that exact spot in the mayor's office. Assuming I'm right about it being the mayor's office. It's only one check off, and requiring that the player stand in a specific spot would tend to make it rare. I don't think many people really explore in her office, since the player is only there briefly for very specific reasons. I'm not even sure if it's possible to wander.

[Omnigamer]

Yeah, the technical stuff is for the benefit of Omnigamer and anyone else interested in investigating. If the root cause of this is a bug that can be encountered during normal play, I'd like to fix it, and I guess Omni would like to exploit it.

Hey now, it almost makes it sound as if I'm a villain :p

I like to think of it as "expanding the realm of the possible" through understanding the mechanics.

In the script I pasted above, it might be worth standing on that exact spot in the mayor's office. Assuming I'm right about it being the mayor's office. It's only one check off, and requiring that the player stand in a specific spot would tend to make it rare. I don't think many people really explore in her office, since the player is only there briefly for very specific reasons. I'm not even sure if it's possible to wander.

In the few cases I tested, I don't think it's possible to get to that point in the room. Annabelle is either always there, or you're not allowed free roam of the room. I also double-checked the sequence in Two River; it may only be possible since Ridley is already loaded onto the map right after you beat Pest Rat, and even then it doesn't continue from there, since I guess the "Ridley yelling at you" script overrides it. There may be other scenes that happen from the more extended ending with a lot more characters, but I don't have a file set up for that right now.

Either way, can you recall what general events you did before continuing to Greenhill, stilettostiletto? You obviously finished Hix and Tengaar's quest, but do you remember if you did any other recruiting after that? Minigames, maybe? Did you hunt down the treasure chests in Kobold Forest?