Speed Run questions

[DrDoobie]

Hey guys, new here. So I'm planning a speed run of Suikoden 2. This is not gonna be a 108 star run but just bare minimum necessary to beat the game in the fastest time possible. Some of the questions I have revolve around random encounters. I was wondering if anyone knows anything about how the game chooses random encounters on the world map as well as in dungeons. Is there any way to manipulate the game in order to avoid as many random encounters as possible? This is going to be a single segment run also.

I hope this thread can be a place for anyone else who is thinking about or is planning a S2 speed run to discuss the game and share what they find. When I have a bit more free time I'll discuss some of the other ideas I have about speed running this game such as potential parties and time savers. Thanks guys!

[Piisuke]

I think the only thing one can do to manipulate random encounters is what group to get and what drop to get, but I think it only works in certain instances, if I recall correct.

I don't think there's another way of manipulating random encounters and sadly, they're a pain in the ass as well.

[BadPotato]

From my (TAS) speedrunning experience, I could manipulate on emulator the encounter by bumping on a wall or just by not moving for few frames or second, so I could either avoid any battle I wanted or get a specific battle. But on real time and on real console, I don't think there is any way to know.

[DrDoobie]

So it'll be RNG hell I guess lol.

I'm looking into which characters are necessary for certain situations especially using the Matilda Gate glitch because the less time I have to wait for certain characters to attack is time wasted which means at points I may not have a full party of 6 characters. I'm gonna start with an initial playthrough with bare minimum to set up splits and regain familiarity with the game. For practice and experimenting I am using an emulator but when it is time for the run I will use a slim ps2.

Are there any notable differences between fast disk speed option as compared to regular speed on a slim PS2?

[Pyriel]

Yeah, you'll burn out the drive more quickly. That's about it.

Edit: To add something other than snark...You might speed up load times a bit, but you'd probably have to play on mute, as the streaming audio would sound like a pitchy mess. There's not much to be gained from it really.

[Omnigamer]

Hello DrDoobie, I'm also currently looking into routing Any% for this game. Right now I'm just theory'ing out a lot of things, but I think you can get encounters to disappear later on by a combination of the Champion Rune and the Instant Lvl 99 glitch. Earlier on it may be better to rely on Stallion for the effects of his True Holy rune (should have him in anyway for the faster running). I also encourage you to check out the Suikoden II threads on SDA and TASVideos. Perhaps we can collaborate on some of the routing.

[Sasarai10]

If you have the patience,then simply do this:


Save your data early in the game (Ryube Village for example),and then play a full game,till the final dungeon (L'Renouile) WITHOUT SAVING in the meantime,then lose to some battle,in L'Renouile,and you'll be back in Ryube at level 60 or so. That means you can "let go" random encounters till the end of the game.

[Pyriel]

Is that really a speed run? "I played for 20 minutes; saved; played for 300 hours that totally don't count; died; reloaded the game from the 20 minutes save; finished the game from there in 3 hours. NEW WORLD RECORD!" Personally, I'd cut out the middleman and extend one of the game scripts to set every character to level 70, and just tell everybody that my invisible, 300 hours of grinding actually exists. Maybe I don't understand the rules.

[Omnigamer]

I assume that DrDoobie and I are both considering Single Segment runs for this, meaning that it would be done in one sitting. I'm not even sure if doing it that way would help, since I imagine that game timer does not reset after the death. In any case, I'll spend some time looking into the RNG in a bit, since it's a hobby of mine anyway. What would be easiest is a way similar to FF9 that allows a drastically lower encounter rate by "stutter-stepping" to reset an internal counter.

Somewhat unrelated, but any additional time spent setting up glitches that affect one file but involve other files or misc setup are also included in the final time. Zelda Skyward Sword and Sly Cooper are the precedents for that rule.

[DrDoobie]

The FF9 "stutter step" was what got me interested in the random encounter RNG but I'm not awesome at numbers.

Also, magic. Is the animation sequence too long to use magic? I'd think that physical attacks done by overpowered characters (Matilda Gate glitch early helps) would make attack magic obsolete. Massive healing of the party by runes as well as defense by Earth runes would be helpful but in that case, would scrolls be a better option. There is a lot of work in terms of planning to do but I'm looking forward to it

[DrDoobie]

Yeah, you'll burn out the drive more quickly. That's about it.

Edit: To add something other than snark...You might speed up load times a bit, but you'd probably have to play on mute, as the streaming audio would sound like a pitchy mess. There's not much to be gained from it really.

Ah. Interesting. I know FF8 and LoD are run on fast disk speed for speed runs so I wasn't sure if there was a use for it on S2. LoD can freeze though due to the fast disk speed.

[DrDoobie]

Hello DrDoobie, I'm also currently looking into routing Any% for this game. Right now I'm just theory'ing out a lot of things, but I think you can get encounters to disappear later on by a combination of the Champion Rune and the Instant Lvl 99 glitch. Earlier on it may be better to rely on Stallion for the effects of his True Holy rune (should have him in anyway for the faster running). I also encourage you to check out the Suikoden II threads on SDA and TASVideos. Perhaps we can collaborate on some of the routing.

Stallion is a must, he cuts world map running by half. Blinking mirror also will save time (though if she makes a mistake itll be a pain in the ass). I'll check them out. I know FFGamer86 who runs FF8 is interested in S2.

The Champion rune isnt found until L'Ren though, that seems too late in the game to be of useful isnt it?

Sorry for the triple post guys

[Sasarai10]

Is that really a speed run? "I played for 20 minutes; saved; played for 300 hours that totally don't count; died; reloaded the game from the 20 minutes save; finished the game from there in 3 hours. NEW WORLD RECORD!" Personally, I'd cut out the middleman and extend one of the game scripts to set every character to level 70, and just tell everybody that my invisible, 300 hours of grinding actually exists. Maybe I don't understand the rules.

Yes,your 2nd playthrough actually.

When you actually finish the game the timer will say sth like 7-8 hrs,instead of 100+....but 100 hrs isn't suggested,because your console will get ultra-hot

So finish your first shot,within 20-25 hrs,and then go for another one.

[Pyriel]

Yeah, I was being philosophical about it. Your method sounds like pumping yourself full of steroids during pre-fight training. Yes, you technically won, but nobody who cares to keep track of your wins and losses will record it that way.

[Antimatzist]

Yeah, I agree, this is a bit too much. I already think that Matilda takes away a lot of interesting points. Or I'd like to see a run with the glitch and one without it, or.. I don't know.