[Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Occam Arkitect · Post by **Occam Arkitect** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:11 am

Red Killey wrote:Finishing Clive's sidequest isn't really a challenge because you just need to rush and then after finishing it, you could still do everything else. And no teleportation wouldn't be a challenge either because it'd only make you spend more time walking around and not affecting the difficulty of the game at all.

But you're sort of "time-pressured" under this thing. So somewhere out there it gives you little mindache.

And no town warps can add to the pain. It's just a challenge on another set of cards. But if you consider these stuff to be irritating, then I got nothing more to say.

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:09 am

The time pressure isn't a problem at all because you'd basically only have to skip the talk to everyone who is not a must talk to person. Anyone with decent gameplay knowledge of Suikoden 2 could finish the game in under 20 hours anyway. So it's fairly safe to say that finishing Clive's sidequest isn't necessarily a challenge.

And the no-teleportation isn't really irritating at all, using Stallion in the party allows us to run quick enough on the world map. The random battles occurring on the world map shouldn't be hard at all to beat anyway if you have decent party. So all in all, no teleportation would only make you waste time and not necessarily making the game more challenging at all.

Occam Arkitect · Post by **Occam Arkitect** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:59 am

I thought no optional characters/non-storyline chars. may be involved? Including stallion, I suppose. Well, isn't it?

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:01 am

The ways that I considered as making the game more challenging are to be done separately and not combined into one. So when you suggested that no teleportation, that happened alone and not along with "only must recruit characters". So in your suggestion, Stallion is still recruitable.

Hxc Flavor · Post by **Hxc Flavor** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:23 am

what about using only teenagers and/or kids? i dont know how much harder it would make the game, but it would sure be different. a bunch of minors going around kicking everyones ass. would be fun to see. also, it would make viktor, killey, mazus, sheena, pesmerga, georg, etc all unable to use. there is still luc though.

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:45 pm

Sorry I'd have to reject that bit. While it limits the characters you could use, it doesn't really affect the gameplay itself. With characters like Luc, Tengaar, Eilie, Riou, Chaco, Ayda etc, they are still decent and wouldn't make the game more challenging.

Hxc Flavor · Post by **Hxc Flavor** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:06 pm

yeah you're totally right. i don't know what i was thinking.

but i'm still a bit confused as to what qualifies as "challenging" or "affecting the gameplay." surely only being able to use certain characters would make it challenging, and definately affect the gameplay. but i do see that my idea wouldnt make it much harder.

i dont have anymore ideas that would fit your criteria, does anyone else?

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:42 pm

What I consider as making the game more challenging is when it affects the way you play the game and would make the difficulty of the game harder. I'll just use two similar comparisons to explain it to you.

1. Only use characters with 1 rune slots.
2. Only use teenagers.

Those two are basically similar in a sense that they limit the characters that you could use. But what makes #1 different from #2 is that #1 limit the characters based on rune slots (gameplay). Whereas #2 limit the characters, but based on the age (which totally has nothing to do with the gameplay at all). So as I mentioned, with #2, you could still use strong teenage characters (such as Chaco, Eilie, Ayda, etc) with 2-3 rune slots. And in the end, doing #2 would be similar to have no limitation at all.

On the other hand, #1 would significantly make the game more challenging because you can only use 1 rune with the characters you choose to use. So it would affect who you use (ex: would it be better to bring Pesmerga or Shin?) and might as well affect which rune you would attach (do I need magic attack or not?), and last but not least, it would significantly make the damage we could deal lower than if we use characters with 2-3 rune slots (no combination of Fury-D.Beat-D.Strike). With damage dealing being lowered, survivability would come to play because it'd take longer to kill the bosses. All that would affect how you play the game and strategize what you would do.

Elle · Post by **Elle** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:38 pm

since ther are a lot of suggestions already with a lot of coverage on how to make this game more challenging, so to start off, when i mention playing the game thru, clive's quest is an automatic reflex b/c most ppl here have already done it and got the perfect ending at the same time well under 20hrs.(aroud 12hrs if u don't read anything, AND if you do read everything it's still possible it'll just take you around 18hrs....u'll be pretty close but you'll still make it to clive's ending)

ANYWAY, since I haven't personally tried to complete the iron-chef cook-off during gameplay, I suggest to play through the game (set your msg options to very fast) but read through everything(u don't have to read slow unless u have to), complete the cook-off sequence throughout gameplay(not just after clive's ending), collect all the recipes(including the ones you have to get from battles), get all the books, get all the animals possible, all the vegetable seeds and recruit all the squirrels, and if you choose to recruit the octopus recruit all her other buddies(2 other extra ones), and since there are probably unlimited amounts of vases you can appraise to decorate your "outdoor" bath, let's say get at least 20 even if you don't have enuf room in the bath house get at least 20.

Hmmm...i haven't read pg 1 of this post so i don't know if all those have already been mentioned...sorry if i sound reptitious if it has but I hvae yet to try doing the cook-off during the game since clive's quest requires me to do things on a time limit...i also haven't managed to get all the recipes while doing clive's quest either...especially the one from the yellow doremi elf!!!!!^^

haPPy GamING!!~~~**

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:08 pm

Sorry, Elle, I have to reject that idea. Completing Clive's quest along with all the other things that you mentioned would not make the game harder, but only make it more frustrating. It sure is a challenge, but the "more challenging" term that I used here mostly refer to make the game more difficult rather than to "do so and so" like you suggested.

Some of the items you mentioned, and also the extra 4 squirrels are random. So it's more based on your luck whether you could finish your suggestion or not, and not necessarily the skill of the gamer. Of course we could just save before "hunting" for the items or squirrels, and then reset/reload if we didn't get them quick enough. But as mentioned, it'd just be frustrating and not challenging.

Lechium · Post by **Lechium** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:27 pm

play a rune-less game (a la materia-less game in FF7).
on yeah and try to avoid obvious tanks a-la pesmerga

p.s. BBQ bomb is your best friend...=)

Elle · Post by **Elle** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:32 pm

hmmm..so my points weren't challenging in the sense that the actual gameplay is harder, but it is challenging in the fact that what i've mentioned above is harder..right? okay, well what about not sharpening your sword, keeping all the characters' (especially riou and nanami and hte ones u get near the beginning) swords at their initial value? I know the lvl will continue to go up, but not having the swords at a high lvl can really minimize the amount of damage u can do and how fast you advance in the games....plus we all agree that when playing this game there isn't any lets, bribes or running away from battles right?

Hxc Flavor · Post by **Hxc Flavor** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:41 pm

both of the ideas in the last 2 posts are already said. please look at the first post with updates before contributing ideas of your own so repeats arent occuring.

Elle · Post by **Elle** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:49 pm

sorry

...i guess i'll have to do some more thinking...there has to be a way to make the game harder then it already is....i'm curious too...

Red Killey · Post by **Red Killey** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:03 pm

Elle wrote:hmmm..so my points weren't challenging in the sense that the actual gameplay is harder, but it is challenging in the fact that what i've mentioned above is harder..right?

Not that. Your suggestion is not making the game's difficulty to be harder at all. It is harder to achieve, but not harder in difficulty. Do you understand what I mean with that? I'll show you with examples:

1. Your idea of doing so and so. Hard to achieve but because of the random occurance of the items and squirrels while the difficulty of the game stays the same as doing it normally (still able to use super strong 3 rune slotters, etc).

2. Playing without any runes. Not particularly hard to achieve (all you have to do is not attach any runes or remove the removable runes), but it would make the game harder because you can't use runes.

What I'm looking for is something like idea #2, not like #1.

plus we all agree that when playing this game there isn't any lets, bribes or running away from battles right?

Well if you plan on recruiting Stallion, then you must let go or run away 50 times.