[Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

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Red Killey
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[Discussion] Ways to make Suikoden II more challenging

Postby Red Killey » Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:58 pm

I create this topic for us to discuss possible ways of making Suikoden II more challenging because we all could agree that Suikoden II isn't really that difficult to finish.

1. First one was what mentioned by Asquian about only recruiting the must-recruit characters and try to kill as many characters as possible during the major battle. So this would be harder because of the low number of characters we have, which would limit us in the major battle (without Mazus, Pesmerga, Georg, Ayda, Max, etc). But IMO, this wouldn't really make the normal/boss battles to be harder because there would still be decent must-recruit characters to form a party (let's say Fliktor, Riou, Rina, Eilie, Chaco).

2. The second one is my idea of only using 1 rune/character. So it doesn't matter how many rune slots your characters have, but you can only attach one rune on them (plus another one on the weapon). This would have no affect during the major battle, but would affect the versatility of characters in normal battle and would make character choice becoming more important (should I bring a big hitter like Pesmerga? Or should I bring someone who could do unite? or whatever).

3. Third one for me is to go solo (or only with the forced characters) whenever possible. This would be harder IMO because Riou would have to be everything from the attacker to the healer. Might not be too huge problem earlier in the game, but might prove a good challenge near the end of the game (especially considering that Beast Rune could make 3 attacks/turn).

4. By nuseed. Use only items found off enemies, useable characters (must-recruit only, of course), or on the ground. Cannot buy items, armor, runes or anything of that sort. Potch can only be used to rest at inns or sharpen weapons. ( And when you need to. )

5. Inspired by nuseed's idea on #4, I think it would be a good challenge to not allow weapon sharpening. Or only allowed to use characters up to a certain weapon level (let's say level 8 or lower). This would knock down the ATK stat quite significantly.

6. By Asquian. No weapon runes, use only pre attatched runes(I.e. what the character joins equipped with). To me (Red Killey), this is interesting because we might actually get to use more of those scrolls to replace the non pre-attached runes.

7. By Asquian. Equip nothing in the 3 acc slots. While this wouldn't make the game *that* difficult due to still possible to customize rune setups, this would knock down the stats quite significantly (esp ATK ad DEF).

8. Inspired by Asquian's ideas on #6 and #7, use generic setup for everything (runes, equipments, wpn level). Meaning, no customizing at all. This would make the game more challenging IMO because this would actually make us might want to use the latter recruited characters (because they would come equipping better, but still not the best, setup).

9. Use different setup (whenever possible) for everyone in the party. This wouldn't really make the game *that* difficult, but this might be interesting to strategize to equip everyone with different runes and equipments (so let's say Riou wear Dragon Armor, no other character in the party are allowed to wear Dragon Armor, same with runes. Unless earlier in the game where we got limited choice of equipments).

10. By Pyro. No runes at all except riou,only heal with foods and potions,if a character has a rune permenantly you can't use them unless they are forced into the party.

11. By Ced the Lad. Use only short range characters.

12. By nuseed. Only use items (no scrolls), defend and attack. No unites and no spell casting. To me (Red Killey), this doesn't make the game any difficult on the offensive part (we're still allowed to attach runes like Fury, Double Beat, etc) but it would definitely make the game harder on the healing part with no rune spells or scrolls to use. Must use food and I think no food heal the whole party if I'm not mistaken.

So any other possible ideas? I'll edit this first post with other ideas so that people would be able to read the ways easily rather than having to go through all the posts.

EDIT: I'll sticky this. Hopefully the other mods and admins wouldn't mind.
Last edited by Red Killey on Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:02 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby Hxc Flavor » Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 pm

1. No money tricks, stone tricks, level up tricks or anything like that.

2. Use only items found off enemies, useable characters (must-recruit only, of course), or on the ground. Cannot buy items, armor, runes or anything of that sort. Potch can only be used to rest at inns or sharpen weapons. ( And when you need to. )
3. Save only at Inns. Saving at journeyman crystals only makes it that much easier and faster.

That's all I can think of right now.
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Postby Red Killey » Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:27 pm

#1 shouldn't make things harder because most people don't use tricks anyway to beat the game comfortably.

#3 also wouldn't make a difference because Journeymen Crystals are only for saving the game and didn't affect the difficulty of the game directly. It would only make you repeat the game longer if you lost the boss fight.

I'll put #2 though on the first post.
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Postby Asquian » Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:02 am

No weapon runes, use only pre attatched runes(I.e. what the character joins equipped with.)

equip nothing in the 3 acc slots.
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Postby Red Killey » Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:25 am

Are they meant to be 2 different cases or 1, Asquian? I assume they are separate? I'll edit them if you meant them as 1 same way.
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Postby Hxc Flavor » Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:14 pm

Another

- No spell casting, just use Attacks. This would mean command and support runes will be very handy. Also means you can have a party of the more physical people you might not be able to use in a mixed party.
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Postby Red Killey » Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:25 pm

Question first to clarify, do you mean we can simply not use spells (still allowed to use "defend", "unite" etc)? Or do you mean must use "Attack" all the time (meaning no "defende", "unite", etc)? It's a bit confusing because you said the two in one.
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making it different

Postby Star of destiny » Fri Sep 03, 2004 6:37 pm

I'm not really sure the game needs to be made more difficult, its perfect the way it is. but, i find that because the first time i played the game i didnt get all the characters, so the next time i played it i got them all. this made the game so much better for me.

Instead of trying to make the game harder, why not try different events such as the cooking competitions or the dancing stages. why not try to recruit Tir McDohl or find some of the old characters. :D

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Re: making it different

Postby Red Killey » Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:09 pm

Star of destiny wrote:Instead of trying to make the game harder, why not try different events such as the cooking competitions or the dancing stages. why not try to recruit Tir McDohl or find some of the old characters. :D

Because most of us had done it.
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Postby Pyro » Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:32 pm

no runes at all except riou,only heal with foods and potions,if a character has a rune permenantly you cant use em unless its forced
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Postby Ced The Lad » Fri Sep 03, 2004 9:57 pm

Use only short range characters? But I suppose that shouldn't count since you're eliminating characters to use (technicaly not making the game harder) and people can use magic.
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Postby Red Killey » Fri Sep 03, 2004 10:05 pm

Well by limiting the character to use and the use of the characters (S-range in back rown can only use magic or attack with Pixie Rune attached) would make the game harder indeed.
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Postby Occam Arkitect » Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:10 am

You guys could also aim to complete Clive's quest while under these challenges. But something tells me this is gonna be a little hard.


And yeah.....no town warps, maybe?

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Postby Red Killey » Sat Sep 04, 2004 12:47 am

Finishing Clive's sidequest isn't really a challenge because you just need to rush and then after finishing it, you could still do everything else. And no teleportation wouldn't be a challenge either because it'd only make you spend more time walking around and not affecting the difficulty of the game at all.
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Postby Hxc Flavor » Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:12 am

Red Killey wrote:Question first to clarify, do you mean we can simply not use spells (still allowed to use "defend", "unite" etc)? Or do you mean must use "Attack" all the time (meaning no "defende", "unite", etc)? It's a bit confusing because you said the two in one.


i originally meant just attacks, but then i thought of unite, item, and defend. i suppose just using items (no scrolls), defending and attacking would make it a bit harder. no unites.
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