Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

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OneRune
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Postby OneRune » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:21 am

I'm just jumping in here because I love Suikoden II, but unfortunately I don't have a PC to play this mod.

One thing I would've liked to see more of in the original game is the use of Status Effects. I feel like status-defending equipment, runes, and other items are basically obsolete because there aren't many occurrences of status attacks other than the Balloon by the elves, poison by multiple enemies (Poison should do a percentage of total or current HP instead of just the 10 hp damage or whatever) and the final boss attack. Not sure if this is implemented into the mod but just a suggestion.

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ninjaluc79
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Postby ninjaluc79 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:37 am

Status effects actually see a lot of use in this mod based on my most recent playthrough. I had to cut it short just before the North Window mission though, I don't really mind the status effects, it's just that enemies hit way too hard and counter way more often than in the original, this being a hard mode mod and all.
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psychedelist
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Postby psychedelist » Sun Jan 10, 2021 6:32 am

About stacking, does clay guardian stack too? Example, using it twice one same char or using it after mother earth.
Clay Guardian doesn't stack with itself, but stacks with Mother Earth.
I am loading my game from save files so almost every monster data update just fine, except for Mr. Venus in the Sindar Ruins. What I meant by "protect data" who protects who (e.g. Nanami takes damage for Riou if he is at low health) and by "berserk data" who gets Berserk when certain characters die (e.g. Nanami gets Berserk when Riou dies). After a while of playtesting my own mod up to the "Saving Private Teresa" Greenhill mission, I kinda realize now why you didn't like how enemies just deal 1-3 damage with enough DEF in the original. Also realized that lower level magic in the original is too underpowered while the higher level magic is too overpowered.
For this berserk/protect data, look for two instances of this data:
01 50 01 12 50 12 12 50 52 49 08 07 09 0A 11 34 34 11 13 15 14 15 1E 1A 1D 1C 1C 1D 29 2A 01 2E 39 23 23 39 4F 31 4F 4A 4A 31 31 4A 02 37 04 05 08 05 0C 05 11 05 12 05 13 05 14 05 17 05 18 05 19 05 27 05 29 05 2B 05 2D 05 2E 05 37 05 39 05 3C 05 44 05 49 05 4B 30 4C 30 4D 30 4E 30 00 00 00 01 01 02 02 03 03 04 04 05 05 00 01 12 50 12 07 08 1A 1E 21 20 39 23 2A 29 4F 31 4F 4A 3B 3A 3C 3A 45 44 4B 30 4C 30 4D 30 4E 30 02 37 00 00

These are pairs of char ids. First half of it is berserk, other is protect, or the other way around, i forget.

I just remembered something about Mr.Venus. You are editing them with my editor, right? One Mr.Venus instance is probably impeded by having an unrelated 304-byte data chunk related to the iso format (probably). You need to put a value to the "offset" field of editor to make it skip the irrelevant data. The exact value is easy to figure out by experimentation, you just try numbers until the monster data starts to look right. Also, two enemies are impossible to find in the editor because their names are also interrupted by that 304-byte thing, making them unsearchable. Those enemies are HollyBoy from Matilda Forest and a Commander from L'Renouille. To edit them, you have to know their exact physical address and insert it in the corresponding field.

In the original, you can get infinite copies of the op runes (except Cyclone and Exertion) as monster loot or rare finds, Fury and DB very early, DS, Mother Earth and Flowing middle game, others later in the game. Obviously this is not how i preferred it, but anyone is free to do it as they wish.
Btw, was Jowy supposed to be at 20 HP and no MP when fighting Gorudo? Cause first time i battled him Jowy came with full HP and MP, then i put solitude rune on Riou and now everytime i face him jowy starts this way. I managed to beat him but it still, seems like a bug to me.
Sorry, never had it (3 modded playthroughs), no idea what happened to Jowy here.
One thing I would've liked to see more of in the original game is the use of Status Effects. I feel like status-defending equipment, runes, and other items are basically obsolete because there aren't many occurrences of status attacks other than the Balloon by the elves, poison by multiple enemies (Poison should do a percentage of total or current HP instead of just the 10 hp damage or whatever) and the final boss attack. Not sure if this is implemented into the mod but just a suggestion.
Oh i did make extensive use of statuses, many enemies inflict them now, even many unites do (onto enemies or even characters). Poison is indeed %-based now.

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ninjaluc79
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:23 pm


I just remembered something about Mr.Venus. You are editing them with my editor, right? One Mr.Venus instance is probably impeded by having an unrelated 304-byte data chunk related to the iso format (probably). You need to put a value to the "offset" field of editor to make it skip the irrelevant data. The exact value is easy to figure out by experimentation, you just try numbers until the monster data starts to look right. Also, two enemies are impossible to find in the editor because their names are also interrupted by that 304-byte thing, making them unsearchable. Those enemies are HollyBoy from Matilda Forest and a Commander from L'Renouille. To edit them, you have to know their exact physical address and insert it in the corresponding field.

In the original, you can get infinite copies of the op runes (except Cyclone and Exertion) as monster loot or rare finds, Fury and DB very early, DS, Mother Earth and Flowing middle game, others later in the game. Obviously this is not how i preferred it, but anyone is free to do it as they wish.
Yeah, I have seen some weird data on some of the monsters in the Bestiary such as the Zombies in North Window and at least a couple of others I forgot. Other monsters have duplicate data even though there doesn't seem to be a reason for them to have dupes like say, the Highlands or the Zombies, do.

Personally, I am not sure where to place the physical runes or how to balance them for late game in my mod. I thought of restricting the physical runes to only one copy each and on either hand slots so the Head slots can only be used for magic and other runes. I also wanted to see more usage of other effect runes such as Balance (for spamming unites that unbalance participants) and Firefly (for tanks) in the mid game for my mod (preferably just before the Luca fight).

One last thing: Where do I find the initial equipment and levels data? Is there any resource I can use to check in-game data? At this rate, I might have to use your mod as base for my own mod. Inflating enemy stats and rebalancing everyone is a great start for me, it's just that I am not sure where to go from here.
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OneRune
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Postby OneRune » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:42 pm

Personally, I am not sure where to place the physical runes or how to balance them for late game in my mod. I thought of restricting the physical runes to only one copy each and on either hand slots so the Head slots can only be used for magic and other runes. I also wanted to see more usage of other effect runes such as Balance (for spamming unites that unbalance participants) and Firefly (for tanks) in the mid game for my mod (preferably just before the Luca fight).
The problem with Command runes and Unites in the core game is that it can be more beneficial to stack a character with damage-boosting runes. Also, some weapon runes don't work with Unites. If it is possible to change this, that would be cool.

Balance would see lots of use if the Unbalanced status was more common. Medicine would be nice if it didn't interrupt your Attack.

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ninjaluc79
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Re: Suikoden II - Rebalanced [hard mod]

Postby ninjaluc79 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:34 am

Personally, I am not sure where to place the physical runes or how to balance them for late game in my mod. I thought of restricting the physical runes to only one copy each and on either hand slots so the Head slots can only be used for magic and other runes. I also wanted to see more usage of other effect runes such as Balance (for spamming unites that unbalance participants) and Firefly (for tanks) in the mid game for my mod (preferably just before the Luca fight).
The problem with Command runes and Unites in the core game is that it can be more beneficial to stack a character with damage-boosting runes. Also, some weapon runes don't work with Unites. If it is possible to change this, that would be cool.

Balance would see lots of use if the Unbalanced status was more common. Medicine would be nice if it didn't interrupt your Attack.
In that case, nerfing Command Runes in addition to restricting them only to specific rune slots might be the best way to nerf physicals. It may still be preferable to magic because it's unlimited but at least you can't just stack physical damage boosts and expect to cheese everything with them.

I didn't think of Unbalance that way but status effects from enemies are still a good way to increase difficulty.

What's bad about Medicine is not only it interrupts Attack on Auto (Is this also the case on Manual?), it only uses up Medicines and it prioritizes the lowest tier available Medicines available if you have both Medicine and Mega Medicine on the user's equipment. Using foods is so much better because not only some of them heal more than Mega Meds at lower cost, they also clear negative status effects and give additional buffs, especially in this mod where Boost is made so much better than in the original.
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