Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

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Nickdoane
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Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Nickdoane » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:21 pm

Hey all I saw the top speedrunners are able to leave the room and trigger the assassin battle in S1 before anyone at the banquet speaks. I havent been able to figure out how to do it myself. Can anyone enlighten me?

Also any other little skips? I know invisible Viki and Bribe glitch but wondering where else I could find time.

Thanks!

Nickdoane
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Nickdoane » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:25 pm

Just to put it out there I spoke with another runner that I've seen walking out of the scene and they told me they don't get the 6 text boxes that I can't skip. IDK why but it seems my game version has 6 extra boxes, idk, no other runners seem to have it happen...

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Celes
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Celes » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:10 pm

Can you post the text you are talking about and/or show us vids with the additional text you cannot skip?

Z3R01337
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Z3R01337 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:24 pm

Hey so until you mentioned it I've never seen it before. But I did come across the cutscene text today during my routing. I made a quick recording to showcase the text and I'm including a video where I didn't get the text. Hopefully someone might have some ideas on this. Both of these are on the PSN version on PSTV.

Banquet Text https://youtu.be/noOHBFdteXw
No Text https://youtu.be/giMF3M_H-JU?t=1h21m40s

EDIT: Just checked my old any% record that was run on PS2 on a original disc and there was no banquet text.

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Celes
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Celes » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:16 pm

You have aroused my interest.

I can not say with certainty from the memory whether these six text boxes seem familiar to me or not. But I tend to not know them.

It is easy to find videos in which these text boxes are contained and those in which they are not included.

Let's Play without the text
Let's Play with the text

The six text boxes contain partially exclusive text. The lines of Pahn are nowhere else to read, while the lines of Lepant are identical to those he also says in direct response. So I checked the text dumps and the exclusive text is there, which does not mean it will happen in the game. Interestingly, we have already found text at Banquet that never appears in the game. But that can be coincidence, since there are several such texts in the game.

I have no explanation for what makes this text appear. Normally I would think that any previous decision is responsible for it, even though it would be pointless at this point. The latter, however, would not surprise me. As we know, Suikoden is full of questionable and flawed code. But since you have two speed runs in your exemplary videos, I assume that all previous decisions will be nearly identical, especially as far as the number of recruited characters is concerned.

Maybe someone else has an idea?

Antimatzist
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Antimatzist » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:45 pm

My first guess was that it might be region absed; in my personal walkthrough, one by another German streamer and a French one, the banquet scene was always skipped. But that wouldn't make sense, some videos recorded from a US PSTV also skipped that scene ...

Then it might be based on something completely random? Number of stars? But I also don't remember this scene ever to occur in all of my walkthroughs.

Which version of the game are you playing?

Was there maybe ever a second run of the game and they, for some reason, changed this little detail?

Z3R01337
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Z3R01337 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:21 pm

Okay so I have a theory. I think the dialog might be triggered based on whether or not you talked to Mathiu in Seika before talking to the kid in his house. Previously, I would always talk to Mathiu before the kid. Recently though, Tilmandra discovered that you can skip talking to Mathiu and just talk to the kid right away. During my routing, I skipped talking to Mathiu and got the dialog for the first time. I also went back to my save state right before entering Seika and replayed everything the same way except this time I talked to Mathiu before the kid and I did not get the dialog. I've only tested each once recently so I'm not completely convinced but it would be consistent with all my previous runs since I've always talked to Mathiu until my routing yesterday.

If this actually is the trigger, I have no idea why. I'm assuming some flag gets set when you talk to him but I have no idea. I'm hoping a few others can test this and let me know what happens. I might try to test some more and put up a video later today.

I'm playing on the PSN version on PSTV. It's the version you download from the PSN store.

EDIT: I just checked the 2 Let's Plays that Celes posted and they're consistent with my theory. The one without the dialog talked to Mathiu and the one with the dialog skipped talking to Mathiu.

And when I say talking to Mathiu I'm refering to this

STARWIN
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby STARWIN » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:10 pm

The text exists twice in both NTSC versions and the PAL version. In the case of PAL, in VB5A1.BIN and VB5A2.BIN. It is probably something like above considering how Pyriel described the programmers' working method here http://suikosource.com/games/bugs.php?game=gs2&bug=31

Nickdoane
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Nickdoane » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:50 am

My working theory is that it has somethi g to do with me getting to the scene at level 1. I'll have to test of course, it'll be real easy to figure if that's it, but I figure that's a part of my route and not the other runners, so maybe that's it.

Nickdoane
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Nickdoane » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:51 am

I'M playing on pstv and can get Marco consistent and can get the wheel manip, so I know some of my values are consistent but I'm ending up with different outcomes

Nickdoane
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Nickdoane » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:53 am

Also, thanks to everyone in here helping!

I don't suppose I could convince someone to find me an early holy rune with Tir dead (so I can use the sheena level 99 glitch). I saw that whoever was mapping out the setups did one for ps3 players upon request, so hopefully someone has it in their heart to help me with the early holy rune on my setup.
I tried brute forcing it for a couple hours with no luck.
With an early holy rune I could push the 108 star glitches record lower than the current glitchless run pretty quickly
Last edited by Nickdoane on Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

Nickdoane
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Nickdoane » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:56 am

EDIT: I just checked the 2 Let's Plays that Celes posted and they're consistent with my theory. The one without the dialog talked to Mathiu and the one with the dialog skipped talking to Mathiu.

And when I say talking to Mathiu I'm refering to this[/quote]

Maaan, I bet that's it. I bet that 1 textbox skipped is costing me 6 a few minutes later. Next run I'll talk to him and see

Nickdoane
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Nickdoane » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:21 pm

Does this also mean I found the spot where that unused banquet text was supposed to go/trigger?

Antimatzist
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Antimatzist » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:44 pm

We already know that this unused text belongs to the banquet, but the characters whoa re supposed to say it aren't there.

Z3R01337
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Re: Hello to the speedrunners out there! Question on banquet skip S1

Postby Z3R01337 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:11 am

Yeah I imagine it's something similar to how the Tinto glitch works in 2.

@Nickdoane
I actually looked into a Holy Rune setup for lvl1 Hero some time ago but I couldn't find anything good. To be fair though, I wanted both Celadon Urn and Holy Rune drops. If you're just going for Holy I'm sure there's something that could work.


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