About 30 minutes from finishing Suikoden IV

[TMan]

So, as some of you might remember, I was just out of surgery and fairly drugged on my first go at Suikoden IV, so my memory of it was extremely blurry.

Here I am, roughly eight years later, and I've just about finished it for the second time. I took some precautions though, as I remembered and quickly became annoyed with the OMFGRIDICULOUSLYHIGHENCOUNTERRATE. So, ASAP, I grabbed Viki and the Champion Rune to make the game a little less horrible.

So here are my thoughts: I'm clocking in at just over 20 hours. Grossly short.

Act 1
-I feel bad for Snowe. Hero is a dick. Going above the chain of command is not really acceptable...
-Why does Hero always look so angry?
-Wow I got the Rune already?
-Okay, well Snowe is interesting.

Recruitment Slog
-I hate sailing, I hate sailing, I hate sailing.
-Look at all these characters with literally no personalities. "Hello, I'll join your group now, stranger!"
-I gained four new characters when I got my ship and none of them were even introduced! Wow! Great writing!
-The towns are nice.
-Why am I getting random encounters in towns?

Act 2/Uniting the Islands
-Kooluk's culture is so thoroughly unexplored that I have absolutely no idea why I should hate them besides brief mentions of a prior war.
- Am I supposed to understand what/where Gaien is without Googling for a map and history?
- Okay the Na Nal chief is stupid. They never would have poisoned the soldiers if Hero hadn't come. How could he possibly go the other way? It's like this story was written by a robot that spits out random results to events.
- Wow, Snowe is super uninteresting now.
-Pirates are cool, though Kika has no personality.
- I'm supposed to know about Cray and where he's from or something, but wtf. He's not Kooluk native I guess? This game sucks.

Act 3 / The End
-Liberated Obel without even taking damage. And people thought the S2 battles were rigged...
-Oh cool, Ted! And he's kind of a jerk!
-More recruiting of ridiculously bland characters with zero motivation or back story! This game sucks and is an embarrassment to the series!

That's pretty much as far as I've gotten. I remember the last boss being super easy but I saw online that a guide said I should have my characters at least at level 60. Really? I'm about to go to the final part and I'm at 51 with my main guys...

[Antimatzist]

-Why does Hero always look so angry?

They made this so much better in V, the hero looks so alive. In IV.. well, his True Rune kinda sucks, draining his life, so I wouldn't smile either.

-I hate sailing, I hate sailing, I hate sailing.

Actually, I think the problem here isn't the sailing, but that there are so few places you can sail to. If there were 8 more islands you could visit, sailing would be a bit more fun.

-Look at all these characters with literally no personalities. "Hello, I'll join your group now, stranger!"
-I gained four new characters when I got my ship and none of them were even introduced! Wow! Great writing!

Totally. Louise at least gets a little bit of backstory, but Desmond - bland. Chadli - totally bland (he loves his helmet). Tov - meh.

-The towns are nice.

I always felt they are too small. Iirc Nay might be the biggest city with its two districts, Middleport feels tiny compared to all other islands.

@all your act 2 points: I love that Tactics tries to resolve most of these issues. But IV should have tackled them.

- I'm supposed to know about Cray and where he's from or something, but wtf. He's not Kooluk native I guess? This game sucks.

His backstory is more or less written in an old book and he tells you his story at the end of the game.. I think.

I always felt the boss is one of the hardest in the series, but mostly because I don't even try to max out my party.

[sticky-runes]

Early 50s should be fine for the final boss. I've gone for level 60 before and ended up killing it too quickly.

Yes, those encounters in the Na Nal beach and square were a pain in the ass. Not to mention Kooluk soldiers still spawn there AFTER you've liberated the island.

Have you played Tactics before? It does actually tie up a few loose ends from this game, and fleshes out some of the characters a bit more.

[suiko2fan2]

Early 50s should be fine for the final boss. I've gone for level 60 before and ended up killing it too quickly.

Yes, those encounters in the Na Nal beach and square were a pain in the ass. Not to mention Kooluk soldiers still spawn there AFTER you've liberated the island.

Have you played Tactics before? It does actually tie up a few loose ends from this game, and fleshes out some of the characters a bit more.

Agreed Tactics make SIV more understandable, and makes me like Lazlo a whole bunch more!

[Antimatzist]

I also want to throw in one point that (slightly) drives me crazy whenever I play the game: I think IV has by far the worst menu sounds of the whole series. :/ I don't know what it is, but they just sound terrible imo.

[sticky-runes]

I don't remember the menu sounds being any problem. Could have done without the beep every time you dismiss a line of dialogue.

[gildedtalon]

I can't say I ever dislike any of the Suikoden games, I still love them all, it's just not so interesting and fun anymore coz I've played it so much and I've collected every single item in S1-4.

My PS2 can't play V and Tactics anymore, same with the emulator. I can't find the suikoden games sold anywhere

[Hirathien]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suikoden-V-rare ... 338330c44e

Suikoden V

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suikoden-Collec ... 43bd2c7ee4 for the big spender

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Suikoden-Tactic ... 5af22e5175

Suikoden tactics, although it looks fishy.

[freshmetal]

I also want to throw in one point that (slightly) drives me crazy whenever I play the game: I think IV has by far the worst menu sounds of the whole series. :/ I don't know what it is, but they just sound terrible imo.

YES!!! I agree completely. When I first played it, the menu sounds were soooooo jarringly loud compared to the sounds of the previous games. I was so disappointed when Suikoden V used the same sounds.

[TMan]

Okay, beat it last night. Not sure how my drug-addled brain managed to remember that boss being easy. Took me twenty tries before I had to go level up and reequip. Beat him on first go after that though.

Btw, yes you're definitely right that the game needed like twenty more islands. The other games have a MASSIVE list of locations at the blinking mirror, this barely has eight and they tried to fluff it by doing "Obel Port/Obel Palace". It's a shame about the towns being so small, because overall I quite like the appearance of them.

However, Na Nal needed some evident farming going on.
Nay needed the evident decay that would accompany a flight of the youth.
Nay Kobolds are absolutely positively insanely stupid.
Obel was cool, though, form-fitting jean-shorts, really?!
The pirate hideout was well set up, but the fact that it was only a tiny cave and a beach... And why would they even have an "inn"?
Razril was cool, though it weirded me out that the knights area was probably about 1.5 times the size as the rest of the city, and much of it was unused land.
Middleport was really nice looking, but yeah way too small. Also, for a city built on trade, there sure didn't seem to be a lot of it going on. I expect to see more ships, more people, and more commerce going on.
El-Eal must have been designed by a blind person because the layout was spectacularly stupid.

As for characters we get without meeting, Desmond and the lot were pretty bad, but nothing as bad as Haruto Nico and Pablo. I mean, I don't think I ever even remember seeing Haruto in the game... Not to mention Sigurd, Hervey, and Nalleo.

And Cray? Yeah his story was sort of explained. I guess he was the father of the boy who wanted bread? Maybe? And then the woman at the end with no explanation.

I've never played STactics. Maybe after I re-beat S1,2,3 in order I'll think about buying that.

[TMan]

Oh one more thing, the ending. When Lino says, "I propose we create a single Federation of Island Nations!" and everyone cheers, I was pissed. No way the writer of the politically charged first three games would have done something so unrealistic. Lino stood up in front of the leaders of other islands and said, "And now, even though I promised I wouldn't, I will make myself king of all of your islands!" and everyone is just like, okay yeah sure.

This worked in S2 because the City States of Jowston were already loosely affiliated and the weakness of their lack of cohesion had been so badly exploited that it would have made sense to come together. Also, remember that Tinto opted not to become a part of the new Dunan Republic. That is realistic. You would have expect Shu to go, "Uh, yeah, that's not really an option, Tinto," and invade them, but whatever. Either way is completely believable.

Bismarck united the states of the Holy Roman Empire through conquest. Ghengis Khan through conquest. China became united through conquest. Hell, even the Italian peninsula was divided as heck til the Romans went rampaging.

I guess what I'm saying is that all of the (semi) realistic political intrigue-ing that made the first three games (especially 2 and 3) so special just disappeared in favor of a nice bow to tie everything together with.

I actually have a kind of similar complaint about the ending of S5, but whatever.

[Antimatzist]

Bismarck united the states of the Holy Roman Empire through conquest.

Yeah, the conquest of France. When Bismarck was chancellor, the Holy Roman Empire was no more for years (was disbaned in 1806)

But now that you mention it, the end is pretty stupid. I also dislike that Nay and Na-Nal have uncharismatic leaders with no portrait. From the very first minute you're like "eh, go away, I can't recruit you".

Totally agreed on the cities.

As for characters we get without meeting, Desmond and the lot were pretty bad, but nothing as bad as Haruto Nico and Pablo. I mean, I don't think I ever even remember seeing Haruto in the game... Not to mention Sigurd, Hervey, and Nalleo.

That's where Tactics was great: Sigurd and Hervey became their backstory, even Pablo got a small bit and became more likeable (I even felt sympathy because he sucks at battles). Desmond was a total failure, however.

YES!!! I agree completely. When I first played it, the menu sounds were soooooo jarringly loud compared to the sounds of the previous games. I was so disappointed when Suikoden V used the same sounds.

Great to see that I'm not alone! It's loud and it's a strange noise. Did they do it again in V? I don't remember. Tactics did not have so bad sounds.

[TMan]

Ah, oops! Haven't learned about Bismarck since '04 because I'm a silly American.

Yeah, meant to mention, the sounds in S4 bugged. Ridiculously loud.

[sticky-runes]

Obel was cool, though, form-fitting jean-shorts, really?!

Oh, yes indeed!

Actually, most of the costumes in this game look very modern compared to Suikoden 1, but then that's not unusual with any sort of prequels.

The pirate hideout was well set up, but the fact that it was only a tiny cave and a beach... And why would they even have an "inn"?

I think it was more of a pub than an inn. Pirates love their grog. and the bartender even makes a comment about you being under-aged or something.

And Cray? Yeah his story was sort of explained. I guess he was the father of the boy who wanted bread?

Cray's son had the rune of punishment and died after using it to destroy the Scarlett Moon soldiers who attacked his hometown. That's why Cray turned against Scarlett Moon, which lead to Elenor being discharged.

And then the woman at the end with no explanation.

The queen of Obel. You see her using the rune of punishment in the game's intro. She was Lino's wife, and he tells you about her during the night before the final battle.

As for what you said about Lino forming the federation, he was the only effective leader in all of the islands. Razril is now without a lord and has been abandoned by Gaien, so the knights obviously become loyal to the Islands. Lord Reinbach allowed lots of dealings with the Kooluk, and now they've been cut off from the Islands. The chief of Na Nal got his people into a mess with both the the Kooluk and the elves, and Nay would have probably ended up like Illuya if the rebels hadn't fought against Kooluk so they'd be better off following Lino. You can't really compare those island chiefs to leaders like Gustave and Theresa or the clan chiefs from suikoden 3.

EDIT: Oh yeah, now I remember why the sound effects didn't bother me - because I turned their volume settings down

[TMan]

Lord Reinbach allowed lots of dealings with the Kooluk, and now they've been cut off from the Islands. The chief of Na Nal got his people into a mess with both the the Kooluk and the elves, and Nay would have probably ended up like Illuya if the rebels hadn't fought against Kooluk so they'd be better off following Lino. You can't really compare those island chiefs to leaders like Gustave and Theresa or the clan chiefs from suikoden 3.

Remember when Snowe willingly submitted to Kooluk in order to spare his people from becoming slaves or being killed? Remember the reaction? And how the game set things up to make it look like the most cowardly, absurd action?

Na Nal has a proud jerk of a chief and a proud jerk of a chief's son. I don't feel either of them would have submitted to Obel so suddenly or willingly.

Nay I can handle. They might submit, being old and in need of the protection anyway.

Middleport would not have submitted. They were very careful to keep their public independence during this fiasco so as not to hurt their trade. Submitting to the new Island Federation would make them auto-enemies of Kooluk.

Razril I can see joining, though I don't necessarily see it as likely. They have a formidable navy of their own and their own knights and history. I think they would sooner declare independence than get into another agreement with another country that might not even care enough to defend them. Luckily, Razril's government was pretty much gone, and all that seems left is the four characters from the beginning. Unforunately, they all seem to be hardcore Razril patriots, a trait that doesn't go well in this kind of situation.

Maybe a more realistic outcome would be an uneasy alliance between Razril and Obel, with Nay submitting willingly to Obel and Na-Nal by force. They would call it a federation, but Lino made himself leader without any discernible process, so who knows. The whole thing is a recipe for disaster. Razril's proximity to the trading hub Middleport would give it a huge economic advantage over Obel if it ever decided to exert its influence. Razril also would still have some ties to Gaien who might be willing to help them if a war ever broke out with Obel. Gaien would likely see the formation of the Island Federation as a threat to their security, so they might be inclined to help incite rebellion.

Then you'd have a second war at the end of S4, a longer game, and much more room for character development! Woohoo!