A Hypothetical Gacha-style Suikoden Mobile Game

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ninjaluc79
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A Hypothetical Gacha-style Suikoden Mobile Game

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:11 am

This thread shall discuss a hypothetical Gacha-style game for the mobile platform (maybe a PC version can be built as a test?) where you build a team of 6 warriors + 2 supports from all the playable Suikoden characters from the Murayama Universe game series? You start out with a default team of choice based on the hero faction you have selected, then you progress through the story based on that hero faction. So if you chose Toran, you must complete Story Mode based on Suikoden 1, but if you chose Dunan, Story Mode will be based on Suikoden 2, and so on. You can collect gems by simply playing at least maybe 5 games a day in any mode (Story, Team Story, Mission, Team Mission, PvP, etc.) win or lose (of course you would win one extra gem for every win) or via in-game purchases. Once you collect enough gems, you can recruit SoD's from different factions at random.

For each hero faction, you will have the following default parties:

Toran Republic (S1) - Tir, Cleo, Pahn, Gremio
Scarlet Moon Empire (S1) - Teo*, Sonya, Milich, Kwanda, Kasim
Dunan Republic (S2)** - Riou, Jowy Atreides (to differentiate from Jowy Blight), Nanami, Mukumuku
Highland Kingdom (S2) - Jowy Blight, Seed, Culgan, Lucia, Han*, Luca Blight*
Grasslands (S3) - Hugo, Fubar, Lulu, Sergeant Joe, Lucia, Jimba
Zexen Knights (S3) - Chris, Salome, Borus, Percival, Leo, Roland
HSFDF (S3)- Geddoe, Queen, Joker, Ace, Aila, Jacques
Destroyers (S3) - Luc, Sarah, Yuber, Albert (as a support card)
Razril Knights (S4) - Lazlo, Keneth, Tal, Paula, Jewel
Queendom of Falena (S5) - Frey, Lyon, Georg, Sialeeds

* not playable in the original game they appeared
** note that while Dunan has the least number of starting Gacha cards, Riou and Jowy are pretty powerful by themselves even without their TRs, and plus they have an all-target Unite Attack in the original games.
To explain the different game modes:

Solo Story Mode - single player event, you basically choose a faction and play out each faction's story based on the original Suikoden games; once you finish one Story Mode, the cards you have obtained will be saved into your inventory but these will not carry over to the next Story Mode you play in
Team Story Mode - help out a fellow player by contributing up to 3 battle cards and 1 support card to his/her Story Mode missions
Solo Mission Mode - select your favorite unlocked Missions and use up to 6 battle cards and 2 support cards to finish them in record time
Team Mission Mode - same as with Solo Mission, except that each player contributes up to 3 battle cards and 1 support card to the mission the team leader selects; so if you have a duo, that's 3+1; for a trio, 2+1; and for a full team of 6, 1+1.
Solo PvP Mode - pit your best team of 6+2 against other real players' 6+2 and win as many fights as you can; may use either the Elo or the Glicko system for matchmaking purposes, to make sure that all players will be matched against players of a similar level to theirs; if you already have the highest or the lowest MMR range, you will be matched against the next highest or lowest MMR range
Team PvP Mode - same as Solo PvP, but with a team of two, three, or a full six;may use either the Elo or the Glicko system for matchmaking purposes, to make sure that all players will be matched against players of a similar level to theirs; if you already have the highest or the lowest MMR range, you will be matched against the next highest or lowest MMR range

As for stats and skills, a slightly modified version of the S1-S3 stats engine (10-255, non-random stat progression) shall be used, while an improved version of the skills systems from S3 (up to 8 skill slots), Tactics (6 rank steps from E to S), and S5 (improved Sword of Magic) shall be used. So that Tir and Lazlo might have S ranks in Darkness Magic (Punishment is counted as Darkness), Riou and Frey S ranks in Holy Magic (Shield and Twilight are counted as Holy), Hugo B+ ranks in Wind Magic and Fire Magic, Chris a B rank in Water Magic, Geddoe A+ ranks in Fire Magic and Lightning Magic, etc.

The PvP part is arguably the most exciting part of this game, as you try to build the strongest possible team of 6+2 you possibly can from all the 108 SoD's in each game, but the Story Mode should be made worth the while to make it enticing for those

Thoughts?

EDIT: Here is an MP table I made using a non-random 10-255 system, with 235 as the maximum base stat, which can be pushed further to 255 with an S rank in specific basic skills.

Code: Select all

MAG   L1   L2   L3   L4
010   1   0   0   0
020   2   0   0   0
030   3   1   0   0
040   4   1   0   0
050   4   2   0   0
060   5   2   1   0
070   6   3   1   0
080   7   3   1   0
090   7   3   2   0
100   7   4   2   1
110   8   4   2   1
120   8   5   2   1
130   8   5   3   1
140   9   5   3   1
150   9   6   3   1
160   9   6   3   2
170   9   7   3   2
180   9   7   4   2
190   9   7   5   2
200   9   8   5   3
210   9   8   6   3
220   9   9   6   4
230   9   9   7   4
240   9   9   7   5
250   9   9   8   5
255   9   9   8   6
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ninjaluc79
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Re: A Hypothetical Gacha-style Suikoden Mobile Game

Postby ninjaluc79 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:18 am

Having played a few gacha games recently, I found one thing that might make selling a Suikoden gacha game a bit difficult : not enough waifus.

All the protagonists in the mainline series so far are male, and there are simply not enough major female characters, preferably those who conform to the otaku standards of "moe", that people would want to whale for.

I can think of only a few potential waifu-able SSR characters from around 500 characters in the mainline games, excluding Tierkreis. More about Tierkreis later.

From all the mainline games, it should be pretty easy to make Viki the memetic SSR unit in this hypothetical gacha game, like Stheno of Fate/Grand Order, Naka of Kantai Collection, IDW of Girls Frontline, and USS San Diego in Azur Lane.

As for the really strong potential female SSRs, not so much. From the top of my head, I can think of Valeria, Lucia, Sarah (Suikoden 3), Kika, Sialeeds, Zerase, Miakis, etc.

I did not include Chris and Lyon in the list snce I am considering Chris and Frey as starters in this hypothetical game along with Tir, Riou, Thomas, Hugo, and Geddoe; so that the Zexen Knights and Lyon can be starting units in this game as well.

Notice that I didn't include Lazlo as a possible starter unless it is possible for Suikoden 4 characters to time travel to the timeline of this hypothetical game. Otherwise, I envision him as one of the best SSR units in this game (specifically, the strongest Rune Knight, only matched probably by SR starter Geddoe) with his very broken Punishment Rune in its Forgiveness Phase.

I should say Suikoden 5 really has it better than all the other mainline games in terms of potential waifu-able SSRs, considering it is set in a queendom, which means it is possible that majority of the waifu-able high rarity units in this game will come from Suikoden 5.

Nonetheless, it is still possible to sell this game to a sizeable female playerbase, even to those who are not familiar with the franchise before, with high-rarity hasubando units such as Luc, Yuber, Lazlo, Tir, Riou, Frey, Ted, Fliktor, etc. And even if players do not really care about getting waifus and only care about getting the best characters gameplay-wise, it is still possible to sell the game despite the rather low female count compared to other franchises, so long as the very few female characters in the mainline series (and Tierkreis, if the devs so wish) are marketed well.

I would like to know your thoughts about marketing lower rarity female units as it is really the only concern I have with this hypothetical gacha game at the moment. Thanks in advance.
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Re: A Hypothetical Gacha-style Suikoden Mobile Game

Postby borjitasstoi » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:53 am

consider put everything that can be amazing

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Re: A Hypothetical Gacha-style Suikoden Mobile Game

Postby ninjaluc79 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:54 am

borjitasstoi wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:53 am
consider put everything that can be amazing
Which starter set do you prefer, the set of Tir, Riou, Lazlo, and Frey; or the set of Hugo, Chris, Geddoe, and Thomas?
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Re: A Hypothetical Gacha-style Suikoden Mobile Game

Postby Neclord X » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:30 am

you start out with a default team of choice based on the hero faction you have selected, then you progress through the story based on that hero faction
Choice...in a gacha? NOPE
All those modes
Nope


XD Don't get me wrong, I like what you say but that is not by any means form or shape a "gacha" game, not remotely. Its more like a traditional RPG with some online features. Just make the SSR 3% and I'm in :D

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Re: A Hypothetical Gacha-style Suikoden Mobile Game

Postby ninjaluc79 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:57 pm

Neclord X wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:30 am
you start out with a default team of choice based on the hero faction you have selected, then you progress through the story based on that hero faction
Choice...in a gacha? NOPE
All those modes
Nope


XD Don't get me wrong, I like what you say but that is not by any means form or shape a "gacha" game, not remotely. Its more like a traditional RPG with some online features. Just make the SSR 3% and I'm in :D
Thank you for all that feedback. Actually, Azur Lane lets you choose your starter ship girl, but it doesn't really matter who you pick because you will eventually get all of them anyway. I figured it should be the same with Suikoden. Select your starter Tenkai, progress through the story, and eventually pick up all of them along the way.

Say, what are your thought about these observations I had with the character pool of the Murayama-universe canon?

- There are too few female characters as possible SSR units compared to other franchises, which can be a problem if you are marketing a Suikoden gacha game to a waifu-heavy playerbase. I reckon majority of the female SSRs will be from Suikoden 5(maybe Miakis, Sialeeds, and Zerase, among others?), but other games in the franchise also have notable females as potential SSRs as well (Viki from all mainline games, Valeria from 1 and 2, Sarah from 3, and Kika from 4). However, majority of the females can be marketed as SRs at best (from the top of my head: Cleo and Mina from 1, Rina from 2, Lilly from 3, and Lyon from 5 as the extra starting unit if you selected Freyjadour as your starter) but given in some games some SRs even beat some SSRs in utility...

- Related to above, most of the major characters in the series who would be more likely to be SSRs are males, but I guess it's not really a problem if you are a pure powergamer who wants only the best characters gameplay-wise, but I guess it is if you are both a powergamer and a waifu lover (which means you would probably want females as the most powerful units in the game).

- Viki as the meme SSR unit in the vein of Stheno, Naka, IDW, and USS San Diego?

- As always, we can make low rarity characters viable even by the end-game (a trend that started with F/GO to compensate for their very low SSR rate of 1%, but has since been followed by succeeding gacha games with varying degrees of success), heck, we can even make a nod to how broken Sheena, Killey, and Hai Yo were in 2 and Juan and Emily in 3 despite all of them not being some of the major characters in their games.
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Re: A Hypothetical Gacha-style Suikoden Mobile Game

Postby borjitasstoi » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:35 am

Suikoden mobile game can be amazing
i think resdue idea of suikoden 2 card stories but that cards with all characters and all that system can be interesting
i dont expect anything related with suikoden but i want that war battle style or card style games
because gacha only can be boring the thread itself its interesting for speculate our perfect game but more far of fittable mobile suikoden game can be difficult nowadays


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