If you tie up too many plot threads at once, the series stops being interesting.
[RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
- Xelinis
- Posts: 396
- Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 8:54 pm
- Location: San Francisco, California
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
I'm going to post something here that I stated in another thread.
- 727
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:35 pm
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
The one up right now works. I'd like to see hear some of all of you people's ideas. I'm thinking about splitting episode II into 2 games. The introduction and the game itself. That way it is more fleshed out and I'm not moving the story too quickly.Nikisaur wrote:I haven't played it yet. Do you have a final cut of 'Episode One' that works properly etc?
A brand new Suikoden game with a well-written script!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suikorok ... ?ref=br_tf
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suikorok ... ?ref=br_tf
- 727
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:35 pm
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
Here are some developer insights on what went wrong. Most of you don't know the intricacy's of rpg maker vx but there's a way to go far beyond it's capabilities with ruby scripting. You will never find a project as ambitious as mine that doesn't use any scripts. Everyone uses them and it's the reason why people consider VX superior to XP because it expands it much further. The limitations of the core engine are partly to blame for why episode I was disappointing. Here is a post I made
in my release thread at the rpg maker site about why things didn't work as I hoped.
''Suikoden is a game far too complex for a game without scripts. It is also a tough task for any one person to make. There aren't any quality games on this site that are both without scripts and without a team. A suikoden game would be a tough task for even the most experienced members here much less a single person whose only experience was using 2003.(no scripts back then) If you think otherwise, you are being naive.
I'm not saying that all the flaws are due to me lacking scripting because when I began this project I lacked organization and experience as well. It was also rushed and during the latter cycle, I stopped giving as much effort. However, these are errors within myself that I have since rectified and the only thing holding me back from making a sequel that puts this game to shame is scripting which is why I have put so much emphasis on it's importance. (I just wish somebody would give me a chance.) When your borrowing so much from something that already has it's own vibe, you need the correct tools to work with. Nobody on this site can make a fan game without scripts, it's just that simple. You can be pessimistic because my first game wasn't all that good but that's a fact. I'm just trying to be realistic because there are limitations to what you can do without scripts.
Problems stemming from lack of scripts
-Dialogue had to be changed because VX has a word cut off
-I had to use one tileset to create 7 desert maps because I didn't have tileset swapping.
-I had to speed up the pacing of the story because I ran out of backgrounds.
-Had to use generic RTP to try to add detail to bland environments because I only had 5 tilesets for the entire game
-Couldn't refine the look with scripts such as screen scrolling,light effects,etc.
-Didn't have anything custom for the battle system so it ended up being too simple
-Lacked tools to replicate Suikoden feel such as upgrading weapons,storage,easter eggs,character recruitment
That's just off the top of my head. It would have been a completely different game If I at least had tile set swapping or paradoxes because then I could have included scenes that should have been in it and improved the visual aspect of the game ten-fold. If you don't think scripts play a major part in all games on this site, you should to try to make a fan-game without scripts and see how impossible it actually is. The reason you are underplaying scripts is because you can't fathom what I've been through without going through it yourself. You guys can complain all you want but when it came down to it, you didn't do anything to help and it was my first game. This project required different strategies to work around the roadblocks of the engine than you will find in a game that is not based on a real franchise.
A fan game is not made the same way that a simple rtp game is.''
btw, I may have found a scripter. Episode II may be back in production and without any limitations you will see what I meant for this to be. Not to mention Episode I id NOTHING BUT foreshadow ep2 and I can finally take my training wheels off.
in my release thread at the rpg maker site about why things didn't work as I hoped.
''Suikoden is a game far too complex for a game without scripts. It is also a tough task for any one person to make. There aren't any quality games on this site that are both without scripts and without a team. A suikoden game would be a tough task for even the most experienced members here much less a single person whose only experience was using 2003.(no scripts back then) If you think otherwise, you are being naive.
I'm not saying that all the flaws are due to me lacking scripting because when I began this project I lacked organization and experience as well. It was also rushed and during the latter cycle, I stopped giving as much effort. However, these are errors within myself that I have since rectified and the only thing holding me back from making a sequel that puts this game to shame is scripting which is why I have put so much emphasis on it's importance. (I just wish somebody would give me a chance.) When your borrowing so much from something that already has it's own vibe, you need the correct tools to work with. Nobody on this site can make a fan game without scripts, it's just that simple. You can be pessimistic because my first game wasn't all that good but that's a fact. I'm just trying to be realistic because there are limitations to what you can do without scripts.
Problems stemming from lack of scripts
-Dialogue had to be changed because VX has a word cut off
-I had to use one tileset to create 7 desert maps because I didn't have tileset swapping.
-I had to speed up the pacing of the story because I ran out of backgrounds.
-Had to use generic RTP to try to add detail to bland environments because I only had 5 tilesets for the entire game
-Couldn't refine the look with scripts such as screen scrolling,light effects,etc.
-Didn't have anything custom for the battle system so it ended up being too simple
-Lacked tools to replicate Suikoden feel such as upgrading weapons,storage,easter eggs,character recruitment
That's just off the top of my head. It would have been a completely different game If I at least had tile set swapping or paradoxes because then I could have included scenes that should have been in it and improved the visual aspect of the game ten-fold. If you don't think scripts play a major part in all games on this site, you should to try to make a fan-game without scripts and see how impossible it actually is. The reason you are underplaying scripts is because you can't fathom what I've been through without going through it yourself. You guys can complain all you want but when it came down to it, you didn't do anything to help and it was my first game. This project required different strategies to work around the roadblocks of the engine than you will find in a game that is not based on a real franchise.
A fan game is not made the same way that a simple rtp game is.''
btw, I may have found a scripter. Episode II may be back in production and without any limitations you will see what I meant for this to be. Not to mention Episode I id NOTHING BUT foreshadow ep2 and I can finally take my training wheels off.
A brand new Suikoden game with a well-written script!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suikorok ... ?ref=br_tf
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suikorok ... ?ref=br_tf
- 727
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:35 pm
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
The problem is getting motivated again. I got everything I need but do I really want to do it? I'm gonna take a week to ponder things.
A brand new Suikoden game with a well-written script!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suikorok ... ?ref=br_tf
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suikorok ... ?ref=br_tf
-
- Posts: 2781
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:48 am
- Location: Germany, yeah baby
- Contact:
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
Well, when did you realize THAT? I could have told you from the very beginning. But I think that yyou contradict yourself: You always said that the game is not about the gameplay and will never be, but now you mention that you are lacking scripts which mostly just change the gameplay. I'd say you should overthink what you really want.
Aren't there a lot of Scripts for download or Tuts for them?
Aren't there a lot of Scripts for download or Tuts for them?
-
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 3:20 pm
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
If you don't even think you are able to make decent fanmade Suikoden game without knowing any script, why would you? If you think you are not able to do it well alone, why would you?727 wrote:''Suikoden is a game far too complex for a game without scripts. It is also a tough task for any one person to make. There aren't any quality games on this site that are both without scripts and without a team. A suikoden game would be a tough task for even the most experienced members here much less a single person whose only experience was using 2003.(no scripts back then) If you think otherwise, you are being naive.
I don't understand the line ... It is YOUR game, why should people who have nothing to do with YOUR game help solving problems in YOUR game? o.O727 wrote:That's just off the top of my head. It would have been a completely different game If I at least had tile set swapping or paradoxes because then I could have included scenes that should have been in it and improved the visual aspect of the game ten-fold. If you don't think scripts play a major part in all games on this site, you should to try to make a fan-game without scripts and see how impossible it actually is. The reason you are underplaying scripts is because you can't fathom what I've been through without going through it yourself. You guys can complain all you want but when it came down to it, you didn't do anything to help and it was my first game. This project required different strategies to work around the roadblocks of the engine than you will find in a game that is not based on a real franchise.
A fan game is not made the same way that a simple rtp game is.''
Anyway thanks for your project and your awesome thread. I loled at your interactions with some of suikosource member in this thread
- Nikisaur
- Posts: 462
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:26 am
- Location: New Zealand
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
Dude. You're aware that you presented it to us as a developed game, with a sequel on the way...? You asked for people to give your game a go and let you know what they thought. And so they did. You got opinions in truckloads. The feedback of your target audience is one of the most important kinds of 'help' you can get as a developer. If you've dismissed that as just complaining, then I'd say that's your main problem, not scripting or whatever. Maybe people are underplaying scripting because that wasn't their main problem with the game...?727 wrote: The reason you are underplaying scripts is because you can't fathom what I've been through without going through it yourself. You guys can complain all you want but when it came down to it, you didn't do anything to help and it was my first game.
That being said, I think it's great you're showing some humility and admitting to not making the game you wanted to. But to say that no one gave you a chance and we're all just complaining is kind of...offensive. Some of us were trying to help you out dude, and all we got was excuse after excuse. I couldn't tell if you were taking anything in or not. If you do decide to make another game, I really do wish you the best of luck! Just...think about how your words are coming across, it can switch people off your project in a second, AND give them something to throw back at you.
The only thing Suikoden lacks...is dinosaurs.
- Hirathien
- Posts: 697
- Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:26 pm
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
You came here, bragged about this awesome game, when we actually got to play it, it turned out to not be that awesome, then you ran away.
Now you're here again spouting off how we didn't help, i'm sorry, but what's the deal?
You said this is YOUR GAME. When you obviously have MORE people involved. I thought it was just the Empire thing that was off but appearantly you think ME equals Me and some other guys.
Way to go dude, we all support ya and think's you're an awesome guy. /Sarcasm mode off.
Now you're here again spouting off how we didn't help, i'm sorry, but what's the deal?
You said this is YOUR GAME. When you obviously have MORE people involved. I thought it was just the Empire thing that was off but appearantly you think ME equals Me and some other guys.
Way to go dude, we all support ya and think's you're an awesome guy. /Sarcasm mode off.
- 727
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:35 pm
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
I never bragged, I just said that the story was good and the gameplay might be solid. I didn't have the scripts! A game without the scripts is not a game, 5 BACKGROUNDS FOR AN ENTIRE STORY THIS COMPLEX IS IMPOSSIBLE!
Last edited by 727 on Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
A brand new Suikoden game with a well-written script!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suikorok ... ?ref=br_tf
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suikorok ... ?ref=br_tf
- Hirathien
- Posts: 697
- Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:26 pm
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
And yet, you're back and you are trying to say "Ey guys! My newest installment will shatter the previous one!"
Since, you are saying "The plot is the star of the show and I think it will even outshine the game istelf."
So, what you are saying up there that we are to expect a really good story. But from your previous things, I can honestly say that will not happen. And a few questions here, again.
Why would Jowy fight Yuber? Why would Windy fight Luc? Why are we in Northern Falena when Episode I is in a big, weird desert with 5 people and a bucketload of Zombies?
Since, you are saying "The plot is the star of the show and I think it will even outshine the game istelf."
So, what you are saying up there that we are to expect a really good story. But from your previous things, I can honestly say that will not happen. And a few questions here, again.
Why would Jowy fight Yuber? Why would Windy fight Luc? Why are we in Northern Falena when Episode I is in a big, weird desert with 5 people and a bucketload of Zombies?
-
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:19 pm
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
I read a few things on here, and want to clear something up. It is impossible for fan-works to ever be cannon. Only the official creators of something can EVER have cannon works. That is why DBZ GT is not cannon, due to AT not making it, and goes for this game.
Also to say this. How about he, instead, calls this an alternate reality game? Then even if the STORY doesn't exist inside the original suikoden series, it can in an alternate reality. Also since it is fan-made, of course this story isn't going to exist. Therefore, it doesn't matter if it didn't happen his way for real. Because it cannot be cannon no matter how hard he tries, as well as it being a fan production, it doesn't matter how it goes. This way, he can tell his stories, and answer his questions any damn way that he likes.
Also to say this. How about he, instead, calls this an alternate reality game? Then even if the STORY doesn't exist inside the original suikoden series, it can in an alternate reality. Also since it is fan-made, of course this story isn't going to exist. Therefore, it doesn't matter if it didn't happen his way for real. Because it cannot be cannon no matter how hard he tries, as well as it being a fan production, it doesn't matter how it goes. This way, he can tell his stories, and answer his questions any damn way that he likes.
- 727
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:35 pm
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
It's easy to be cynical of a story that you haven't heard yet. I researched this story and built it to fill in the gaps using what the Suikoden lore has led me to go on. It's a fun supplement to Suikoden II and III. Even if it's not really true, it's within the realm of possibility according to the lore.
I just came out with a DEMO for EPISODE II. The first game just didn't have the scripts. It wasn't the stories fault that the game was incomplete when I released it.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/SuikoRoku ... 3649544482
I just came out with a DEMO for EPISODE II. The first game just didn't have the scripts. It wasn't the stories fault that the game was incomplete when I released it.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/SuikoRoku ... 3649544482
A brand new Suikoden game with a well-written script!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suikorok ... ?ref=br_tf
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suikorok ... ?ref=br_tf
- Hirathien
- Posts: 697
- Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:26 pm
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
So, in this release, is the Highland Kingdom still an empire?
- 727
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:35 pm
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
This is set between Suikoden II and III. Highland was defeated when Riou and Jowy escaped, Shu is in charge of Dunan.
Please try the demo.
Please try the demo.
A brand new Suikoden game with a well-written script!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suikorok ... ?ref=br_tf
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Suikorok ... ?ref=br_tf
-
- Posts: 2781
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:48 am
- Location: Germany, yeah baby
- Contact:
Re: [RPG Maker] Suikoroku Gaiden Official Thread
The demo has really nothing to offe, I hoped for some gameplay, but... nothing. It doesn't really increase my interest, especially because the Jowy-Kage scene is really cheap (why has Jowy 3 different images??)