Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Suikoden Tierkreis pre-release board.
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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:00 am

And a popular game does what? Sell. And to return the investment it has to do what? Sell.
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby suikodian » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:28 am

Let's do some basic calculations to find out whether Suikoden Tierkreis can be considered a success or not. So far the game has sold more than 120,000 units in Japan with a cost of ¥5,500, which is around $60, per unit. Multiplying 120K by $60 gives $7.2 millions of revenue. Is this enough to consider Suikoden Tierkreis a success? Well, the average development cost of Nintendo DS games is between 1.5 and 3 millions, I will quote the source later. It is apparent that the revenue exceeded the development cost and the net income for Suikoden Tierkreis is between 4.2 and 5.7 million dollars. Is this enough of a net income for Konami?

Edit: the exchange rate used was taken from Google "5500 Japanese yen = 61.66600 U.S. dollars"
Edit 2: the source and more data can be found on this post: http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=114222#p114222
Last edited by suikodian on Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby Braxiatel » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:30 am

Raww Le Klueze wrote:
Nemesis wrote:It is definitely a success, 10/10.

I encourage all of you to try it; especially those who been dissing TIERKRIES! I will admit that everyone bad comments about tierkries affected me but i decided to buy it anyways. Now, I don't regret buying it at all. I am glad I followed my own instincts rather than ppl's UGLY opinion about the game who never even press the START NEW GAME on the TItle screen.

ANyways! GReat part right now, I don't know hwo to recruit that loser but I'mma get him soon enough. Been stuck for 2 hours, brb

This topic is not about your personal preference or opinion and your nonsensical comments are irrelevant.


Very excellent post!!

Especially since anything positive about Tierkries is obviously nonsensical.

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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby Runemaster » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:56 am

And every negative post by people who have never even played the game is even more NONSENSICAL.

Don't you think?

Now, oshunter's post prove Tierkreis to be not a flop.
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby Antimatzist » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:18 am

Runemaster wrote:And every negative post by people who have never even played the game is even more NONSENSICAL.

Don't you think?

Now, oshunter's post prove Tierkreis to be not a flop.

But it doesn't prove to be a success, either. But just because we don't know the expectations of Konami towards this game.

Additionally, maybe it won't sell at all in NA or Europe (which I highly doubt, since most game critics love this game...), so it will be a flop in the end, maybe resulting in no new suikoden at all or even in a new suikoden which is only published in Japan.

But it's getting way to speculative ^^'

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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby Runemaster » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:26 am

Huh? Aren't the NA and EU releases confirmed? Reservations are already out in the internet,; the official NA box art has also been released...

And yeah, we don't know Konami's expectations but it's surely not a flop.
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby Iku » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:05 am

i get the feeling we're gonna lose either way, we want this game to be a success so that they'll make a suikoden game like the old ones, but if this game is a success they'll make another game similar to this one, because it did well, prehaps its time to close the book on the old world and embrace the tierkries world
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:51 am

oshunter wrote:the average development cost of Nintendo DS games is between 1.5 and 3 millions

Then again, Tierkreis isn't an average DS game as most DS games don't have animated cutscenes, generous voiceacting nor do they hire an idol to sing the theme song.

Iku wrote:prehaps its time to close the book on the old world and embrace the tierkries world

I can't see any sense in them creating a series based on Tierkreis as they will just repeat the supposed problems of the original series. Once they have a sequel or two they will alienate new fans from wanting to jump in midstory and have to abandon that setting as well.

If Tierkreis gets a sequel it would have to be a spiritual one in a new world yet again or they will effectively have destroyed exactly what they claimed to have wanted to create with Tierkreis.
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby suikodian » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:27 pm

My figures were not accurate, as a matter of fact the development cost of DS is way cheaper than that. The cost is around $500,000

Year: Cost in Yen (Titles Counted) - Cost in USD
2005: ¥39,800,000 (48) - $337,288
2006: ¥35,800,000 (94) - $303,389
2007: ¥47,600,000 (154) - $403,389
The exchange rate between 2005 and 2007 was around 118
These days the rate is a bit low, around 90, which causes the cost to go up to around $530,000

So, even if Suikoden Tierkreis isn't an average DS game, it is still profitable.

Data source: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=49220

Raww Le Klueze wrote:Then again, Tierkreis isn't an average DS game as most DS games don't have animated cutscenes, generous voiceacting nor do they hire an idol to sing the theme song.

That is true but still this won't raise the cost too high.

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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby Braxiatel » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:59 pm

Iku wrote: i get the feeling we're gonna lose either way, we want this game to be a success so that they'll make a suikoden game like the old ones, but if this game is a success they'll make another game similar to this one, because it did well,


Actually, I want this to be a flop so they'll go back to making proper Suikoden games. This one isn't even a true Suikoden game at that. Just a cash-in with the name slapped on.

Iku wrote: prehaps its time to close the book on the old world and embrace the tierkries world


That's not even funny. You should be banned for spouting hateful garbage like that.

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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby Oppenheimer » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:04 pm

No need to threaten people with banning, that's my job. She's as welcome to give her opinion as you are Brax.

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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby qwsed » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:41 pm

Well, the sales will boost of a couple of 10.000 more when it hits the US/EU markets (i hope for more than 100.000).

So financially this game is a win situation (IF the game did not cost more than 1-3 million)
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby blah1017 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:59 pm

Braxiatel wrote:
Iku wrote: prehaps its time to close the book on the old world and embrace the tierkries world


That's not even funny. You should be banned for spouting hateful garbage like that.


Hey now, maybe it's not what everyone wants, but can't we be a little more accepting of change?

I'd rather see the series continue in the Tierkries world, then to see it die off entirely.

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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby Rezard » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:25 am

oshunter wrote:My figures were not accurate, as a matter of fact the development cost of DS is way cheaper than that. The cost is around $500,000

Year: Cost in Yen (Titles Counted) - Cost in USD
2005: ¥39,800,000 (48) - $337,288
2006: ¥35,800,000 (94) - $303,389
2007: ¥47,600,000 (154) - $403,389
The exchange rate between 2005 and 2007 was around 118
These days the rate is a bit low, around 90, which causes the cost to go up to around $530,000
http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=49220

I dont understand japanese, so I would like to ask: What are those "development costs"? Does that include only the costs from the productive departament? Or the costs from the entire company (accounting, investor's share)? Or total costs (taxes, distribuiontion costs, sales commission, etc)?

I seriously doubt that a mid popularity game, let alone any legal activity, would be that profitable. I think there are other costs. If I use your data, income = $7.2 millions, cost = $530,000, there would be more than 1000% profit in 2 years. That's impossible, there must be something we are missing.

Iku wrote:i get the feeling we're gonna lose either way, we want this game to be a success so that they'll make a suikoden game like the old ones, but if this game is a success they'll make another game similar to this one, because it did well, prehaps its time to close the book on the old world and embrace the tierkries world

Then it would be best for the game not to do bad, but not to do good either. A mid between the two would be best.

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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Postby LanceHeart » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:49 am

Raww Le Klueze wrote:And a popular game does what? Sell. And to return the investment it has to do what? Sell.

It doesn't need to sell as much as a Final Fantasy game if Suikoden Tierkreis cost far less to make. I'd even go so far as to say the ROI Tales of Hearts gave to Namco is probably a lower ratio than that of ST to Konami.
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