Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Suikoden Tierkreis pre-release board.
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Runemaster
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by Runemaster »

Looks like Tierkreis must have a lot more sales for it to outnumer SV!

Anyway, how did Tactics do in the market???
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Braxiatel
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by Braxiatel »

LanceHeart wrote:You're yet again not looking at the big picture. Suikoden Tierkreis is a new game in a younger franchise and Chrono Trigger is a 15 year old port of a game that has near-god status amongst RPG lovers both here and in Japan. Add to that the simple fact that Square Enix put their logo on the game and that just adds a few thousand purchases on brand alone.

Last I checked, in the eyes of the layman Konami makes Metal Gear Solid, Castlevania and lotto/arcade machines. What's more, Suikoden Tierkreis launched in a time where quite a few JRPGs are coming out at the same time. Tales of Hearts was moved back a week as well, so you can't really blame Konami for putting the game up against ToH on the DS, Namco did the moving.
Actually for a lot of people, they make MGS, Silent Hill, Contra (back in resurgence on the DS), Suikoden, Gradius, Winning Elven (aka Pro Evolution), Suikoden and Castlevania. Little bit more than you listed.

Though Konami seem pretty determined to butcher every popular series they have - farming out Silent Hill and Contra to western developers, the newest WE wasn't received well and sales have been in decline for MGS since MGS 2, as have Suikoden since S4.

I think Konami is just looking to cull the herd of their less "popular" titles - read ones that don't sell enough. Putting Suikoden against Final Fantasy is the same kind of move that networks do when they want to kill a TV show that isn't generating ratings. They put it up against an insanely popular show and then cancel it due to "poor ratings". That's what Konami is doing here.

And a brand new game shouldn't be losing to a 15 year old game, because shouldn't everyone have played it by now?
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by Emperorpen »

Yes Brax, Konami wants to do their best to ruin their own company. After all, they wouldnt want something to be profitable. That makes a bunch of sense.
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by Braxiatel »

It makes sense in the context of if they want to kill off the series for good.
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by JanusThePaladin »

Have you ever played Chrono Trigger Brax? To say it has God-like status to RPGers is probably an understatement. It has been claimed to be one of the best games ever made, and definitely is seen as one of Square's (not squarenix) greatest acheivments. Seriously, consider having the Second coming of Christ versus listening to your favorite pastor. Even though you like him, it GOD visiting! Thats about how this ends up. To compare anything in sales to Chrono Trigger is rediculous.



Anyway, i hadn't realized the sales for S5 were that bad! Which is odd because its definitely the best one since 2. My guess would be people's disappointment at 4 and Tactics.

As for Tk's success, i think its probably still to early to tell, but with all the game magazine's positive reviews, and the MASS of zombified gamers, i'd say it has a good chance. If it has anything near the usual Suikoden flair, we should be happy.
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Mio
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by Mio »

Braxiatel wrote:I think Konami is just looking to cull the herd of their less "popular" titles - read ones that don't sell enough. Putting Suikoden against Final Fantasy is the same kind of move that networks do when they want to kill a TV show that isn't generating ratings. They put it up against an insanely popular show and then cancel it due to "poor ratings". That's what Konami is doing here.

And a brand new game shouldn't be losing to a 15 year old game, because shouldn't everyone have played it by now?
okay now seriously if they certainly wanted to pull the plug on Suikoden, why would they invest on a new game?

why not just cancel the series altogether?

why play games of putting it up against an "insanely popular" game?

to find an excuse to cancel it?

really now, if Konami wanted an excuse, don't they already have SV's whopping sales?

if they've really given up hope on the series and wanted to kill it... i think that's reason enough to cancel any series, TV or RPG

where are you getting all these speculations anyway?

also if I have to choose which to buy between a fresh game and a re-release

I'd choose the re-release

even though I've already played it, if I know it's good, then it's a guaranteed money well spent

I should know right? cause i already played it

Publicity for games like Chrono Trigger, FF Series, and Tales of are positive and widely spread

add the fact that Suikoden has suffered a crash from SIV
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by Braxiatel »

Mio wrote:
also if I have to choose which to buy between a fresh game and a re-release

I'd choose the re-release

even though I've already played it, if I know it's good, then it's a guaranteed money well spent

I should know right? cause i already played it

Publicity for games like Chrono Trigger, FF Series, and Tales of are positive and widely spread

add the fact that Suikoden has suffered a crash from SIV
Why would you buy something you already own? That's just wasteful and killls new IPs.
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by Mio »

haven't I already explained why I would buy a re-release?

It's like buying a DVD copy of a movie you already watched

need more visual aids?

well now you know that people each have a mindset different from yours
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by amelia108 »

Braxiatel wrote:
Mio wrote:
also if I have to choose which to buy between a fresh game and a re-release

I'd choose the re-release

even though I've already played it, if I know it's good, then it's a guaranteed money well spent

I should know right? cause i already played it

Publicity for games like Chrono Trigger, FF Series, and Tales of are positive and widely spread

add the fact that Suikoden has suffered a crash from SIV
Why would you buy something you already own? That's just wasteful and killls new IPs.
yeah, and i'm sure the mainstream audience really thinks like that. not everyone's as "smart" as you are about the games they buy. not to mention ctds has added features (and story) that make people who loved the game almost feel like they have to buy it. yeah it's a cashgrab, but any kind of business isn't as romantic as you wish it would be, and it never will be. you can continue to be a raving cynic about it, or you can get over it. somehow i bet you'll choose the former.
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by Emperorpen »

Anyone else notice how he didnt respond to Mio calling him out on "why would they just not make anymore games if they wanted to kill Suikoden?" question?

I dont think Brax understands how a company works. This isnt some sort of fairy-land scenario. A good company will make sure that everything they do is profitable. Why do you think companies care about fan service at all? Because it helps their image and therefore makes them sell more games. Thats all. If they are making this game, it is because they believe they can make a profit on the game that is worth it. They are not making this game specifically to prove that Suikoden is no longer worth it. All they have to do is not make the game to begin with.
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by Braxiatel »

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it faulty. And it would be nice if people could simply make a point without making cheap personal attacks. It's not a lot to ask.

And regarding what Mio said about Tierkries succeeding on PSP, no, it wouldn't.

The DS is the more popular platform, so it should have succeeded, but Konami placed it against Final Fantasy, pretty much dooming it from the start.
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by Antimatzist »

Braxiatel wrote:The DS is the more popular platform, so it should have succeeded, but Konami placed it against Final Fantasy, pretty much dooming it from the start.
It's not doomed. We've only got the sales for ONE day. Let's see how much copies did sell after one MONTH.
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by Seiso »

Well, I think the first day of sales don't tell us much, since you can see on SV had very good sales on the first day, but, drooped drastically day after day.

Time will tell us if it’s doing great or not, I really hope that they do well as a fan, but, due to a lot of external problems I can’t expect that much.

Because with that economic problem people tend to buy less superficial things, like games, and try to save more money. And even if some people intended to buy them, they will chose better, and if this game wasn’t one of their priorities it’ll surely be cut off.

Braxtiel, says that placing against powerful series right from the beginning wasn't a very wise decision, you have some kind of point in there, looking for what I said above, but, if you consider the marketing and the time of the year (Xmas surely give us a hope to sell more) it's not so wrong too.

But, saying that they want to kill the series is a little odd. I don't think that a company wants so much to kill themselves or someone want so bad to lose their job, killing one of their brands and wasting money, even more considering the actual situation.

So I think we need to see the whole context, wait and hope that Konami reach the expected sales and see our series alive and kicking butts.

*Any English mistake or misunderstandings, please, complain to my English school in my country.
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by LanceHeart »

Ok, so my initial jubilation is short lived. According to Media Create, Suikoden Tierkreis didn't even manage to crack the top 10 in software sales for its first weekend.

http://chartget.blogspot.com/2008/12/me ... -1221.html <-- Lowest sales point is just under 80K. Expect Tierkreis to be even lower than this. Hopefully it's in the upcoming top 30 list. I'll keep you posted.
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Braxiatel
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Re: So, has Tierkreis been a success or not?

Post by Braxiatel »

In other words, I was right.
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