[Guide / Corrections] Character Recruitment Guide Updates

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SpaceCoyote
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[Guide / Corrections] Character Recruitment Guide Updates

Postby SpaceCoyote » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:50 pm

While routing the 108 Star Speedrun of this game I came across some new info for a few of the characters. Some are just really minor corrections, but having Dongo definitively figured out is nice info to have. Enjoy:

Dongo:
*You only need to give him one hammer total, though it has to at least be the Silver one from Sable.
*Step 1 - Sharpen a character weapon in your active party one time (doesn't matter if it's even Level 1 to Level 2), then back out of the menu and ask him to join you.
*Step 2 - Sharpen a character weapon in your active party to Level 12, then back out of the menu and ask him to join you again. The character you are sharpening must be in your active party. If they are in your Entourage this will not work. Step 1 and Step 2 can be done back to back.
*If you defend the Castle and Roy dies, you will need to bring Wabon with you in order to recruit him. Because Wabon is so elusive, the only time you can do this is after Stormfist.
*If you abandon the Castle, you can add Wabon in your party and get Dongo on the way to Gordius. If you don't do this, you will have to wait until after Stormfist to bring Wabon to recruit him.
*You cannot recruit him during the event where you have to go back to Dwarf Camp to fight the Assassins and head to Sauronix.
*If you want to get Dongo before this, just get the Silver Hammer from Sable and follow the sharpening instructions above, though as mentioned, you have to do this before triggering the event where you go back to the Dwarf Camp. Wabon is actually in the tent directly south of Dongo before he is recruited, which is why you can get him at this point.

Sairoh:
*One small update here, you don't have to buy Salt before the price skyrockets, and you don't have to make money when you sell it. Just to experiment, I didn't buy any Salt, waited for the price to skyrocket (which is the base price x6), bought 6 Salt at Beaver Lodge (3rd highest base Salt price) at $1620 each, then went back to sell it at Raftfleet at $600 each. This works just fine. Just remember to get the Salt dialogue from Sairoh before actually selling your Salt, otherwise it's like it never happened.

Murad:
*You only need to ask Murad to join you 3 times, not 4.
*Also, Murad can be found one final time in Stormfist after the late game events there. He is near the intersection to the right of the Inn and can still be recruited.

Haleth:
*You'll need to talk to him twice in Hershville before triggering the scene with Logg in the Castle Tavern. He is no longer there after the battle at Stormfist.

Raven:
*It's implied that recruiting Egbert is required before starting the quest with Solis in the guide, which is true (though he can be found in your Tavern later in the game when he moves from your Inn). Taylor, Marina, Belcoot, Oboro, Shigure, and Fuyo are also required to be recruited beforehand, otherwise Solis will not trigger the start of this quest.

Retso / Shun Min / Subala:
*I can confirm you do not need to talk to Retso about the Strange Fish in order to catch one. Interesting note though, he will still mention the Strange Fish even if you haven't recruited Subala.
*Never say never, but I personally have never caught a Strange Fish in any of the alternate fishing mini-games that Subala has. There is one version where you catch the most total fish (weight not important), and another version where only the single biggest catch matters. If you get either of these versions, you can cancel the game with the Square button and try again right away. Speaking of cancelling though, if you catch a Strange Fish and cancel out of the game, you do not get to keep it. You won't get the Strange Fish dialogue from Subala, and even if you go back to Retso, he won't recognize that you caught one. Obviously, it won't be in your inventory either.
*Most of the time, the game is free to win, however, Subala has put up over 500 on me more than once. So, she can go off when she wants to. In my experience, stick to the small and medium size fish, as the bigger fish almost always end up as ? Items or Boots.
*The Strange Fish can be any of the fish sizes in the game, but given that the larger looking fish tend to be items, you have a better chance of getting one while aiming for one of the smaller fish.

Eresh:
*You do not need to bring Jeane with you in order to have Eresh join you.

Sorensen & Babbage:
*Not really a correction, but an optimization. After finishing the Revolving Bridge quest, you don't need to go back to Estrise (and then to your Gear Room, back to Babbage's Workshop, and then back to your Gear Room again). You can just dump them both off in your Castle Gear Room, leave the Castle, and come back. They will both join at the same time. This just needs to be done after Lym's Coronation.

Alhazred:
*If you missed starting his quest in Rainwall, you can start the quest later in Estrise by the Trading Post (east of the dock on the north side of town).
*Also, you technically don't need to sleep at Marina's Inn to get your Cursed Book back, you just need to leave the Castle and return.

Killey:
*The guide mentions an unverified claim that you can get him without letting him out of Agate Prison, finishing Twilight Ruins, then going back there afterword to get him. This is not true.

Norma & Ernst:
*You can talk to her early on in Raftfleet (such as when you recruit Wilhelm and Mueller). You do not need to recruit Levi, talk to her without him, then go back and talk to her again. Just talk to her early on, then again after getting Levi with him in your group and you'll get them both.

Oboro:
*The info is correct, though it's worth noting that you can start the quest early on in Rainwall, bail on it after a few dialogue choices, and get him earlier than you would have if you skipped the quest altogether. Basically Oboro operates on a "points system" similar to affection points for other characters (Zegai). You can choose Option 2: "I'll go too!" after leaving the Inn for 1 point, then Option 2: "I want to see how this unfolds." for another point after seeing the shady character near the dock, then bail on the quest when you're asked to continue in his ship. If you get the 3rd Oboro point, you must finish the quest, which involves going all the way to Lordlake and back, fighting the Barows Soldiers at the Southern Wharf.

A few final notes. Whenever a recruitable character is following you on the map screen, you won't be able to recruit any other character that would also be following you on the map screen. However, you can still recruit some other characters, assuming you're not in the middle of a plot event where some are unavailable. Subala, for example, comes and goes in Raftfleet more than any other recruitable character during the story; sometimes she's there, sometimes she's not. I'm assuming because she transports you back to the Castle Dock to play her fishing mini game that might have otherwise messed up the games progression. You also can't do both of Euram's sidequests at the same time. Once you've started the Book of Condemnation sidequest with Alhazred, you won't be able to get Isabel and Mathias until you have completed it. The final cutoff point for recruitment is different for certain groups of characters. You can still safely recruit after Stormfist, though some people won't be available anymore.

Not related to recruitment, but a fun fact about the Champion Rune in this game. Richard is recruited at Prince's Level +10, so if you recruit Richard when Prince is Level 51, he'll be at 61. Throw the Champion Rune on him and avoid all random encounters. This works whether he's in your Active Party or Entourage.

Routing this game was fun and rewarding, infinitely more than Suikoden 3. I'll be doing more speedruns of it periodically over the next few months if anyone is interested, especially if you want to see how laughably easy the war battles really are.
Last edited by SpaceCoyote on Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Pyriel
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Re: Character Recruitment Guide Updates

Postby Pyriel » Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:12 pm

Dongo:
*You only need to give him one hammer total, though it has to at least be the Silver one from Sable.
*Step 1 - Sharpen a character weapon in your active party one time (doesn't matter if it's even Level 1 to Level 2), then back out of the menu and ask him to join you.
*Step 2 - Sharpen a character weapon in your active party to Level 12, then back out of the menu and ask him to join you again. The character you are sharpening must be in your active party. If they are in your Entourage this will not work.
*If you defend the Castle and Roy dies, you will need to bring Wabon with you in order to recruit him. Because Wabon is so elusive, the only time you can do this is after Stormfist.
*If you abandon the Castle, you can add Wabon in your party and get Dongo on the way to Gordius. If you don't do this, you will have to wait until after Stormfist to bring Wabon to recruit him.
*You cannot recruit him during the event where you have to go back to Dwarf Camp to fight the Assassins and head to Sauronix.
*If you want to get Dongo before this, just get the Silver Hammer from Sable and follow the sharpening instructions above, though as mentioned, you have to do this before triggering the event where you go back to the Dwarf Camp. Wabon is actually in the tent directly south of Dongo before he is recruited, which is why you can get him at this point.
Honestly, this sounds like a bug caused by naively assuming everyone would do things a certain way, without taking steps to ensure that they did. The expectation being that you'd give him the Iron Hammer, sharpen a few weapons, then give him the Silver Hammer, and top up a few of your party's weapons. The check sounds like they just set some weakly indicative flags like "hasSharpened", "hasReceivedHammer", and "hasSharpenedLevel12" with logic that's sort of...off. The recruitment doesn't work if you give him the Silver Hammer and sharpen one active party member's weapon straight to level 12? How close can the two sharpening sessions you're talking about be? I didn't see that part of your speedrun, but I'm assuming your route is to give him the Silver Hammer and do your step 1&2 all in the space of about 20 seconds.

SpaceCoyote
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Re: Character Recruitment Guide Updates

Postby SpaceCoyote » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:48 am

Good questions. Here's the follow up:

If you sharpen to Level 12 right off the bat, you get the first "Would you mind joining us?" dialogue, but he won't join you. If you do this you have two options ... sharpen that same person to Level 13 (you'll need a Golden Hammer), triggering the second dialogue choice "Will you join us now?" ... then he will join. Or, sharpen another character to Level 12, then this will trigger the second dialogue choice.

The initial sharpen doesn't matter, it just has to be one level. It can be 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 ... 10-11, etc. That's all you need to trigger the first join dialogue option. If you continue to sharpen anyone up to Level 11, Dongo won't say anything else to you.

I don't get the Silver Hammer; I just get the Golden Hammer since it's right in front of you in Twilight Forest Ruins, then I get him either during the Gordius sidequest (if I let Roy live), or after Stormfist (if I insist Roy dies).

The most interesting thing to me is that sharpening someone in your entourage means nothing when recruiting Dongo. Gotta be in your active party. One last fun fact; if you get Dongo after recruiting Wabon, you don't actually need Wabon in your party the first time you sharpen ... but you do need him in your party for the sharpening up to Level 12.

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Pyriel
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Re: Character Recruitment Guide Updates

Postby Pyriel » Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:24 pm

Thanks for the info.

That's so unnecessarily fiddly. The game really ought to kick you out after the first sharpen at any level, and automatically start a conversation, depending on the level, where he either joins or hints that he will if he can make a more powerful weapon, or whatever. Or it should just be based on giving him the Silver or Gold Hammer, and leave the other nonsense aside. Is it theoretically possible to miss him by maxing out all your weapons, or is there something that prevents that?

SpaceCoyote
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Re: Character Recruitment Guide Updates

Postby SpaceCoyote » Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:14 pm

Yea it's understandable why people had so much trouble recruiting him back in the day, especially if they were sharpening someone in the Entourage. I'm definitely aware that probably nobody cares at this point, haha. But it's good info to have nonetheless. I agree they should have allowed you to recruit him by just giving him a certain hammer.

Great question about having max weapons actually. I'll sharpen everyone to the max and test it out when I have some time.

Also, Zero mentioned previously that Dongo and Wabon have the Forge skill ability, which increases each party members attack power based on its rank ... and its rank is determined by what hammer you've given to Dongo. Just to follow up on that, unfortunately, Forge does not stack. Damage range is the same if you have only Dongo in your party, only Wabon in your party, or both at the same time.

SpaceCoyote
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Re: Character Recruitment Guide Updates

Postby SpaceCoyote » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:34 am

Alright just a quick update here. I edited the original post to update notes about Sairoh, Raven, and Murad. But, in regards to Dongo:

You can grab the Platinum Hammer at Stormfist and head to Dwarf Camp afterword to still be able to recruit Dongo. You can technically lock yourself out of getting him if you sharpen all battle characters to Level 16 (make sure they are in your Entourage when you do so) and also not having Wabon with you in your party. When it comes to Prince, you'll have to repeatedly select option 2 so you don't trigger the recruitment dialogue. If you do, then sharpen to 16, and select option 2 for the 2nd dialogue choice, he won't join, but even if you come back later with Wabon in your party, if you talk to him at all the recruitment scene triggers without doing any sharpening. That's the simplest I can explain it.

So basically, you'd have to really, really, really try hard to not recruit him, and do so deliberately.

Also, I attached a screenshot of selling Salt at a massive loss (see Sairoh notes in the 1st post). It still works just fine for recruiting him.
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KFCrispy
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Re: [Guide] Character Recruitment Guide Updates

Postby KFCrispy » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:31 am

Wow this is really amazing info SpaceCoyote! Unfortunately the website management stuff is no longer working so we're really limited to posting on the forums nowadays...... (maybe a revival will actually happen with the hype from Eiyuden Chronicles?)
I felt this game was really hard to research on the PS2 and it was so hard figuring out precise information. Emulation probably helps a lot with figuring things out. I should replay this game and do more research :)

I didn't know about the Forge passive effect on physical damage. Do you have any approximate numbers on its effect?

So for Sairoh, just selling 6 salts is key? Actually it does kind of make sense that you don't need to make a profit, as Sairoh's question is what you'll do to lower the price (right? It's been too long). So introducing new supply into the system should lower the price (even though you just bought it earlier lol)... very cool.

SpaceCoyote
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Re: [Guide / Corrections] Character Recruitment Guide Updates

Postby SpaceCoyote » Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:45 pm

Thanks KFCrispy. Honestly it probably took an embarrassing amount of time to figure it all out, but at least it's done. It's definitely understandable how frustrating it was for people to recruit some of these stars back in the day given how specific some of the "rules" are for recruiting them (Dongo, Sairoh, etc.).

After doing some math and testing damage outputs with parties including Wabon, Dongo, and without either and comparing damage ranges, I think Zero has it correct with the following numbers:

Base Forge Skill: C = +10
Iron Hammer: Forge Skill B = +15
Silver Hammer: Forge Skill A = +20
Golden Hammer: Forge Skill S = +25
Platinum Hammer: Forge Skill SS = +30

It doesn't sound like a lot, but when you include Formation Skills (True Men / Striking Arrow), along with Rune multipliers, and a party of six, a free +25 (Golden Hammer) to each person adds up quickly and makes a significant difference. It's like getting a few weapon sharpening levels for free. Given that Wabon is a mandatory recruit, and that the Golden Hammer is right in front of you in the Twilight Forest Ruins, it's really free extra damage, Wabon doesn't even need to be in your main party, just put him in your Entourage.

For Sairoh, yep, just sell 6 Salts. Doesn't matter if you bought them 30 seconds earlier at Beaver Lodge for almost triple what you're about to sell them for. And yea, his exact quote is: "Your Highness, are you aware that the price of salt is shooting up like crazy at the moment? Salt is an absolutely necessary ingredient for life. All the people are suffering. How would you lower the price, Your Highness?"

Going through this game again made me realize how good it is. Definitely replay it when you have a chance.


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