True rune

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True Wind Bearer
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Post by True Wind Bearer »

I seriously hope that vampires are in this game; not necessarilly being Neclord. I don't care if Jeane or Viki make an appearance, I'd rather a vampire to show up, call me crazy. I just love vampires.
demon eye
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Post by demon eye »

Actually I believe there is a statement that Yuber has been present in every major war. So, I think it's safe to say that Yuber has the ability to do things on Yuber's own when Yuber feels like it or this means that Windy wasn't the only one that summoned Yuber before Leon Silverburg did. Windy is an accomplished sorceress, maybe even the most powerful sorceress in the entire series so far. She did not need Neclord and Yuber around her at all times in order to accomplish her goals.

This is proven by the fact that Neclord had gone and done his own thing for hundreds of years after the destruction of Ted's village. I'd go as far as to assume that Yuber and Neclord did not have contact with Windy until the destruction of the Lycanthrope Village which was at least two hundred years after the destruction of Ted's village and they probably did not get in contact with her again until the Gate Rune War began. Clearly Yuber and Neclord were not tied at Windy's hip. They were just there for her when she needed them.
koriand'r
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Post by koriand'r »

Jowy Atreides wrote:
koriand'are wrote:I myself think its unlikely given the fact that SIV had no desire to put in Windy, Neclord and Yuber considering Ted was in and at this stage was still the 'hunted'. But a country ruled by women would surely not go pass Neclord during his lifetime and he is one to pursue his own personal ambtions.
That would be contradictory, since it's been stated in the past that Windy and Ted hadn't met between the destruction of the Village of the Hidden Rune and when they met again in Suikoden I.
As I said before, Windy and co wouldn't need to have directly meet Ted in eye to eye contact to make ted the 'hunted' they could had easily been in SIV searching up for any leads while ted was hidden in secret hoping they would just pass on by as it would had been incredible that out of the 300yrs windy and co weren't even close to finding him just once.

Anyway given the timeline now its impossible for Neclord to be in Falena as since prime is in this it means two things: a) if prime is in falena before the murder of the queen then neclord is still too tied as windy's servant or b) if its after s2 then neclord surely can't be in as he's dead. So i doubt vampires to be in and even doubt yuber to be in unless it involves windy somehow as he is still tied to her.

Also demon eye Yuber wasn't in the conflict at SIV and that was pretty major.
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

koriand'r wrote:As I said before, Windy and co wouldn't need to have directly meet Ted in eye to eye contact to make ted the 'hunted' they could had easily been in SIV searching up for any leads while ted was hidden in secret hoping they would just pass on by as it would had been incredible that out of the 300yrs windy and co weren't even close to finding him just once.
Sorry, I didn't read your post correctly. It still seems pretty silly for Windy to be in the same general area as Ted, and not be able to find him. That's just my take on it, though.
koriand'r wrote:Anyway given the timeline now its impossible for Neclord to be in Falena as since prime is in this it means two things: a) if prime is in falena before the murder of the queen then neclord is still too tied as windy's servant or b) if its after s2 then neclord surely can't be in as he's dead. So i doubt vampires to be in and even doubt yuber to be in unless it involves windy somehow as he is still tied to her.
Neclord isn't exactly under her direct command, seeing as Neclord has been doing things like tearing up the Marley's land. He could very possibly be in Falena, seeing as he tends to like places where he can find some brides, and Falena would be an obvious choice.
koriand'r
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Post by koriand'r »

Possibly, there is no info on when windy and co offically inflintrated the SME but given this will be based before the succsesion war then it can be said that Neclord isn't in Toran at the time and could be a good excuse to be at falena.
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Post by Angelis_Taleria »

koriand'are wrote:Possibly, there is no info on when windy and co offically inflintrated the SME but given this will be based before the succsesion war then it can be said that Neclord isn't in Toran at the time and could be a good excuse to be at falena.
Actually, this game will have to take place after the Sucession War.
I hope everything is going delicious.
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

Something that should publically declared (to avoid confusion) is that the entry for Georg at Suikox and Suikosource is incorrect. There's an entire editorial about the error at Suikox, and it can be found here.
Richmond wrote:He's got a hell of a history. In the Scarlet Moon Empire, he was 1 of the 6 Generals. In the Grasslands, he was an Ebony Moon Knight, and in Falena he was a Royal Knight. He just threw it all away.
According to Richmond, the correct order of events would be: Scarlet Moon Empire (Succession War), Camaro/Grasslands (Ebony Moon Knight/Black Moon Warrior), Falena (Royal Knight/Assassination of the Queen).
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Post by Soul Eater »

Jowy Atreides wrote:Something that should publically declared (to avoid confusion) is that the entry for Georg at Suikox and Suikosource is incorrect. There's an entire editorial about the error at Suikox, and it can be found here.
Richmond wrote:He's got a hell of a history. In the Scarlet Moon Empire, he was 1 of the 6 Generals. In the Grasslands, he was an Ebony Moon Knight, and in Falena he was a Royal Knight. He just threw it all away.
According to Richmond, the correct order of events would be: Scarlet Moon Empire (Succession War), Camaro/Grasslands (Ebony Moon Knight/Black Moon Warrior), Falena (Royal Knight/Assassination of the Queen).
I would go as far as to argue with the editorial, I think the "first", "then" and "and then" were used for listing, and do not denote an order of events.
demon eye
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Post by demon eye »

Actually, the Island Nations War was not major at all. Actually, it wasn't even a war at all but a skirmish started by a single man to accomplish a selfish goal. Kooluk was involved, but based on false information given by Graham Cray. I would go as far as to say that it was a brief skirmish based on misinformation. Nothing major about that 6 month escapade at all. Sorry, the fact still remains that Yuber was present in every major conflict. The Island Nations ordeal was far from major.

And the editorial does reflect the correct chronological order of the events. The facts are that Georg Prime was the 6th Great General first, then moved to the Grasslands, became a Ebony Moon Knight of Camaro, and then made his way to Falena. I don't know how more distinct the information would have to be. It has been clearly stated that the information we had previous to the editorial was in the wrong order.
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Lemmy Claypool
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Post by Lemmy Claypool »

demon eye wrote:Actually, the Island Nations War was not major at all. Actually, it wasn't even a war at all but a skirmish started by a single man to accomplish a selfish goal. Kooluk was involved, but based on false information given by Graham Cray. I would go as far as to say that it was a brief skirmish based on misinformation. Nothing major about that 6 month escapade at all. Sorry, the fact still remains that Yuber was present in every major conflict. The Island Nations ordeal was far from major.
Where are you getting it from that Yuber was involved in every major conflict? The only thing I can think of that comes close is a quote from Suikoden II where Apple (at least I think it's Apple) says he's a "mysterious man that has appeared and played a part in several major wars across the continent" or something to that effect.
Last edited by Lemmy Claypool on Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lemmy Claypool
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Post by Lemmy Claypool »

EDIT: Accidental double post, sorry.
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Post by Black Knight Yuber »

With the exception of Suikoden IV, Yuber gets involved in quite a bit of conflicts.
Destruction of the Village of the Hidden Rune
Suikoden I - Gate Rune Wars
Suikoden II - Dunan Unification War
Suikoden III - Second Fire Bringer War
That's quite a history of events he's involved in and who knows what else he could've been involved with.
koriand'r
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Post by koriand'r »

demon eye wrote:Actually, the Island Nations War was not major at all. Actually, it wasn't even a war at all but a skirmish started by a single man to accomplish a selfish goal. Kooluk was involved, but based on false information given by Graham Cray. I would go as far as to say that it was a brief skirmish based on misinformation. Nothing major about that 6 month escapade at all. Sorry, the fact still remains that Yuber was present in every major conflict. The Island Nations ordeal was far from major.
How exactly is that different from suikoden II? The city-states conflict was started by luca who was motivated by his own petty vengence let alone the war was all but an excuse to execute a ritual for the beast rune to serve under Luca. Even suikoden III's conflict was spurred out of misinformation by illusions and double cross along with Luc wanting to kill himself and take the world with him to hell. The conflict in suikoden one was nothing more then to get the soul eater for one person. And how can a weapon that destroyed an Island be nothing major? Yuber seemed pretty ok to join those 'unselfish' conflicts and not the Island nations whose conflict lasted almost as long as the city states one.
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Post by demon eye »

It's different because it was an actual war. The person who had the single-minded motive was murdered less than halfway into the game. The plot developed from that point and it was no longer Luca's agenda against the individuals that raped his mother. It spawned into the real reason for the controversy. The whole plot of Suikoden 4 was for Graham Cray to retain the Rune of Punishment, but Suikoden 2 clearly was more advanced than that. I'd say there was very distinct differences between the two.

Suikoden 1 was much more than just to obtain the Soul Eater. It was infact motivated by solving the corruption within the Scarlet Moon Empire. Suikoden 3 was between the Zexens and the Grasslands. A conflict that spanded over 50 years. Sorry, but I don't see how the little skirmish in Suikoden 4 compares as major compared to Suikoden 1, 2, and 3. So, yes I'd say that Yuber did serve in each of those major conflicts for selfish reasons. And you ask about a weapon that destroyed an island? What True Rune would not be capable of such a thing? You are looking at the small picture and not the big one. The fact is that Suikoden 4 was singularly driven by one man's goal.

The war would not have even taken place if he did not pursue the Rune of Punishment which just happened to land in Hero 4's, Lazlo's, hands. Of course, one could argue that Luc spurred the conflict of Suikoden 3 and Luca spurred the conflict of Suikoden 2, and Windy spurred the conflict of Suikoden 1 but that isn't true at all. These conflicts had many underlying causes that were bigger than the catalysts themselves.

Ever since Claudia died Barbarossa began to lose his way as a ruler. This was evident by the sentiments of his generals. Even the ones not controlled by the Conqueror Rune doubted the Emperor's way. Before Luca's mother's rape, Dunan and Highland had conflicts this was evident by Han and Genkaku's struggle also with the Wisemails and Lucia's father. Then we trekk to the Grasslands and the Zexens which have struggled for ages amongst each other. This was before even Luc was even born. We pretty much know that Yuber passed through the Grasslands as Windy was present to destroy the Lycanthrope clan that resided there.

So, we see that Suikoden 1, 2, and 3 all had underlying reasons for war to spread. What do we have in Suikoden 4? Kooluk had soundly handed defeat to Razril. Obel was quietly enjoying its neutrality. All of a sudden a merchant named Graham Cray comes across and manipulates the Kooluk army to pursue war with the Island Nations. That's the background for that game. Nothing more. The only other item of consideration is the Rune Cannons and they played minimal roles in the game aside from ship battles. So, you tell me whether or not the conflict was major compared o the other 3 games of the series who had years of social, political, and economical build-up. Suikoden 4 was clearly based on one man's motives.

As for the question about where it is stated that Yuber has attended every major conflict, I believe it is mentioned in Yuber's character description on this very site. It may have also been mentioned by a Silverberg, as well, Leon Silverberg I believe to be exact. I believe he states this in Suikoden 2 when Luca or Jowy makes reference to the Black Knight that joined them in their ranks. Apple mentions Yuber, as well.
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patapi
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Post by patapi »

Kooluk had always set its eyes to expand itself southwards, and their main target was Gaien. The completion of Fort El-Eal and the Middleport's independence were but some of the events that were directly caused by this mission. The new Governor was supposed to continue this effort, but he was ultimately an ineffective representative. Cray easily manipulated the Empire's forces to fulfill his own, of course. He was established a tactician of sorts, so it's no surprise.

It was a typical imperial expansionism story. For those island nations who had managed to defend their independence from Kooluk's invasion, I'm sure they considered these events as anything but a minor skirmish.
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