Suikoden VI Strategist

[Vextor]

How is it flawed when the Tenki star has always been the main strategist in all previous Suikodens, including the Shui Hu Zhuan?

The fact that the developers went out of their way to make sure Valeira and Kasumi got the same star from Suikoden 1 proves that they intend to give the same star to the same people.

[Iesous]

And if the developers decide that characters can change stars just to add an element of nostalgia or some bull crap like that, how many people will just quit on the series? I'm convinced that it is a true statement: "People don't change their star." Rather than just: "No one has ever changed their star." But I believe there is another thread somewhere for that discussion.

[27x4=108]

There is the Sigfried and Fearther thing, or Tomo too..

I sopose they only go really serious about the main characters, generals, strategists, etc.

[Vextor]

Sigfried, Feather, and Tomo's situation doesn't prove anything unless they appear in other games as a star of destiny.

[27x4=108]

My english is bad, but I will try to explain better xD

I mean they think some stars like the strategist star are very important, and that stars will always be the stars of the strategist, leader, etc, but other stars maybe are less important, and can be changed. If you look at Shui Hu Zuan maybe the stars that change in Tomo and the others are totally diferent.

What Im trying to say is that they make changes, they adapt the stars to what they want, ignoring some of the original base of the Shui Hu Zuan, so maybe we will see some changes and variations on the star list, like see important characters that share a star, changing the star of one of them to be able to have both in a game.

They probably wont never change the Tenkai and others so important but why not a secondary?

[yuberluc]

i think depends on the characteristic if there's any changes of the SOD,you can see Tenyu Star in suiko3 there's yuber & the in suiko5 there's is galleon, that's MAJOR differences right from these 2 people?

and by the way i'm still confuse why yuber is one of the SOD in suiko3, he doesn't want a better future for the world and human kind right?

[eldrasidar]

yuber wants a better future, however, he possesses a unique idea as to what a better future would be, namely pure chaos.

it's kinda hard to say what Shui Hu Zhuan felt about the subject, I mean, he only wrote one story, where certain characters exhibited certain traits, professions, and so on. If he had written a second novel based on the idea of 108 stars, it would be impossible to say what he might have done.

with the modern games, I believe this has more to do with convenience than anything else. most repeated stars are only of real importance in one of their appearances, so it would make complete sense that when appearing in a less important role, they would represent a different star, while somebody new would fill their old slot. the other thing to keep in mind is that repeated stars have also lost their star, and just become background characters, or in Tir's case, non-star playable characters.

if a star represents certain traits(such as primary strategist) and is tied to a character, then please explain this: the Chirei star is the primary doctor, and the Chijyu is the secondary doctor, except in suikoden 3, where they are reversed so that tuta can remain the same star. if one wanted to bring albert back, as primary strategist, with the same star, here is a precedent for it.

[Palmguy]

Yeah, Tomo, Siegfried and co technically DO NOT change stars. It just happen that in the dimension of the game you are playing, Valeria was destinies to be a SOD again, so Tomo got the star Kasumi had. It's like it was already decided that this is what would happen. However, in an other parallel dimension, it's Kasumi who continued to be a star and Tomo got the one of Valeria... Does that make sence? It does for me.

HOWEVER, like Eldratar pointed, while the stars don't change, the job associated to them do, like with Tuta. This would be possible.
Even though I doubt a returning strategist would be the main one.

[eldrasidar]

I never claimed it would be likely, although if any strategist were likely to return in any capacity, it would almost certainly be Albert, Klaus, or Caesar, assuming that suikoden 6 takes place anytime up to 10 years after 3, and given that the average age of the primary strategist is currently just above 30 years old. 10 years from suikoden 3, Albert would be 32(a year older than Lucretia in 5), Caesar would be 26(a year older than Shu in 2), and Klaus would be 42. Shu would be 50, the same age Eleanor was in 5, so he would likely be the extreme limit on comebacks, though he was involved in the higheast rebellion, so it's possible he would still be active, even if it's just as an NPC mentor to the 6th strategist. Lucretia and Leon would both be in their 70's by this point, and hopefully retired.

[yuberluc]

That's why i'll choose albert & ceaser,their both still capable to be the next tactician in suikoden 6, their age are too old to be it.. or maybe Klaus (i kinda want to see him again after suiko2,he's not bad to be tactician also)

[Vextor]

In Shui Hui Zhuan, Chirei and Chijyu are both doctors, and neither are subservient to the other. In the case of Tenki and Chikai, there's clearly a difference in rank within the Lian Shan Bo Army (the protagonist's army within Shui Hu Zhuan. Tenki is given a clear role as chief strategist, while the Chikai-star has more of a support role. In fact, the Chikai-star in Shui Hu Zhuan is more of a sorcerer than a tactitian.

[eldrasidar]

well said, but, that doesn't void the tuta example, but rather strengthens it. if originally in shui hui Zhuan, the two stars were doctors of relatively equal skill and importance, then suikoden 1 and 2 tweaked those two stars, and 3 tweaked them some more, and of course many of the patterns in suikoden stars have nothing to do with their ancient chinese predecessors. it's this fantastic thing called creative licence. Suikoden is only inspired by Shui Hui Zhuan, the designers, have and will take liberties in how they choose to portray the 108 stars.

[Vextor]

Yep, however, characters have never changed their stars in Genso Suikoden, and the development team has never strayed from that-- and even produced ways to make sure the same star is given to returning characters by bending plotlines.

For example, Lucia was originally planned as a star of destiny in Suikoden 2 as the Teni Star. However, the decision was made to bring Pesmerga back in Suikoden 2, and thus Lucia was bumped out of the Stars of Destiny, instead of moving Pesmerga to a separate star.

The development team has taken a lot of creative liberties on the actual roles of the stars. For example, Hua Rong of the Tenei Star is basically the best archer in the whole of the Lian Shan Bo Army. However, we have characters like Gremio, Sierra, and Lyon as stars. Only Yuili and Aldo are archers. There are plenty of other cases were characters that are famous within Shui Hu Zhuan are given completely different roles within Genso Suikoden.

However, most of the main stars (most of the stars of heaven) seem to be consistent, as well as some of the earth stars, such as Chizen, who are always master sorcerers.

[Palmguy]

Yeah, I don't believe the team would even change someone's stars just because they feel like it. They went into a lot of trouble to make sure Valeria and Kasumi kept their own stars, and it's not for nothing that returning stars keeps the same they had.

[27x4=108]

Really amazing info Vextor, I changed my mind, I think they may change things and do Suikoden more diferent than Shui Hu Zuan than change stars to acomodate characters.

But is sad to know that it will be imposible to see characters like Leon and Albert together in a game.