Tactics 2

[Kirkis]

So... if there were to ever be another Tactics based game, (Which I hope there is, I liked the idea of playing a Suikoden that didn't have any sort of True Runes involved, unless you count Lazlo's Bonus Appearance and the first few battles)... which Suikoden would be the best era to base it on, 1 & 2 (Their kind of the same time era practically), Suiko 3 or Suiko 5?

I'd personally like to have a Tactics game built more around the Suiko 5 timeline to expand on a handful of characters that weren't really explained touched on too much... like Cathari for example... or perhaps a Tactics game that starred Nash and wasn't related to any timeline might be good too.

[Feldoon]

In the same vein as the topic for the RTS, I'd love to see the games focused around conflicts we've heard of and are dying to play but just aren't allowed.

The Succession War and the Higheast Rebellion, to give examples.

[Darian]

Was the Higheast Rebellion more than just one isolated event, though?

I personally think that the first Fire Bringer War would make the best case. Yeah, there are True Runes involved (True Runes we've seen before, too) but I think the setting is perfect for a tactics-based game considering the smaller nature of the conflict.

Then again, SIII had a smaller conflict and it was a proper Suikoden instead of a tactics game... Hrm... and we already know of all the major events that happen in the first Fire Bringer War...

Um... Maybe New Armes invading Falena?

No, wait, that has the same problems...



... This is hard; maybe the idea of not having it relate to any timeline would be best.

[patapi]

Was the Higheast Rebellion more than just one isolated event, though?

I personally think that the first Fire Bringer War would make the best case. Yeah, there are True Runes involved (True Runes we've seen before, too) but I think the setting is perfect for a tactics-based game considering the smaller nature of the conflict.

Then again, SIII had a smaller conflict and it was a proper Suikoden instead of a tactics game... Hrm... and we already know of all the major events that happen in the first Fire Bringer War...

First Fire Bringer War would be perfect, when you take into account the length of that conflict (approximately 18 years). And, of course, the bandit-approach of the Grasslanders would fit well with the Tactics setting too.

Otherwise, I cannot see how Suikoden III's conflict should be considered "smaller" than any other. Explain.

[Darian]

Otherwise, I cannot see how Suikoden III's conflict should be considered "smaller" than any other. Explain.

It's moreso in the scope of the battles than anything (not talking True Runes). I know it wasn't a collection of bandits like the first war, but battles are not nearly as grand as those in other Suikoden games (the last battle is really the only one I can see as being more than just a skirmish; maybe another but my memory is fuzzy) and politically the scope is very small; the Grasslands and Zexen don't appear to be major players in the world politically and Harmonia's attempts to conquer it (the second time) are small. We didn't see any grand armies marching towards eachother or complex battle strategies or political intrigue; no massive political upheavals or clashing of ideaologies (at least not later in the game). It really amounted to small force of soldiers fighting against a small army of monsters and your only real enemy wasn't so much a nation as it was a group of three people.

I think a big part of why I see it like this is because in SIII the regular army seemed to absent. You'd see the odd soldier every once-in-a-while, but it was almost always the SoDs fighting, which made things seem 'smaller' -- to me, anyway...

Again, this is completely ignoring the inclusion of true runes and looking solely at the political and military aspects of the game (and the ways in which they changed the army battles). If we're talking true runes, then it was a big deal, of course, what with Luc wanting to blow everything to little bits. :p

And admittedly it's difficult to judge in terms of any kind of ripple-effect seeing as how we have yet to get a game that takes place after. This gives the impression that it was a more-or-less isolated event, but that isn't really fair to say until we get a Suikoden that takes place sometime after III.


I was thinking the same thing when I thought of the First Fire Bringer War. I think the biggest problem is that we already know of almost - if not everything - major that happened in the first Fire Bringer War. I guess it isn't that big of a deal. 18 years gives the writers plenty to work with, and even though we already know of the major events it's not like we actually got to witness them in any great detail, so I guess it would work, afterall.

The more I think about it, the more I hope Konami does it.

EIT: Wow - I guess I was in a helluva writing mood; sorry about all that. ^_^;;

[Feldoon]

Personally I thought that only SoDs fighting in these major skirmishes helps emphasise the point that you're not really an army, just a rag-tag gathering at a dilapidated castle that's owned by two different 'countries' trying to fend off an invasion as best you can.

Basically, they remain the underdog. That is, until they find Sarah's summoning the army.

[Kirkis]

Well, the only downfall to knowing everything is that there isn't any room for any surprises. However, there can ALWAYS be surprises, and there can ALWAYS be a good Retcon (Basically when the creator of a world/series changes something in the history to better reflect something in a new game, the most current example of this was all the drama involved with the Dranei looking like Eredar in World of Warcraft).

Anyhow, it's pretty much easy to toss anything/anyone into that game, or even simply make a Tactics game based off the Suikogaiden games. They shouldn't have many major hang ups pulling something out if they so desired. Even the Armes Invasion and the drama involved in Suikoden 5, even though we KNOW what happens, it doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun playing through it.

[Darian]

Personally I thought that only SoDs fighting in these major skirmishes helps emphasise the point that you're not really an army, just a rag-tag gathering at a dilapidated castle that's owned by two different 'countries' trying to fend off an invasion as best you can.

Basically, they remain the underdog. That is, until they find Sarah's summoning the army.

I agree completely. In fact, that's exactly what I was trying to say -- I just took the scenic route. ^_^;;

And now that I think about it I agree that they can still pack in some surprises even though we know what happens. Like the first Fire Bringer war; we know of a handful of major events, but 18 years is a long time and there is a lot to work with. Even if there aren't any new surprises, there's still a lot of space for good story telling. Personally, I'd love to see the story of the Flame Champion, Jimba (his real name escapes me at the moment), and Geddoe play out in detail.

[Feldoon]

Wyatt. Jimba's earliest known name is Wyatt. Then he adopted his lover's surname.

Anyway, I've got an idea.

A Tactics that branches across an area roughly around V-I-II.

That way, people screaming for Tir to make an appearance, Riou and Jowy to make an appearance, Fliktor, Luc etc. can be sated without their appearances being necessarily canon.

The storyline? Pah, let Konami think of a new one.

I'm still all for an RTS detailing past major wars.

[Darian]

Wyatt. Jimba's earliest known name is Wyatt. Then he adopted his lover's surname.

AAAGH! How could I forget one of the greatest names ever?!

Wyatt...

... Awesome name.

A tactics game bridging V to I would be pretty nifty. I really like the idea of having a Suikoden -- proper or tactics or something else entirely -- that spans a large amount of time.

I think an RTS would be cool if they were to bring something unique to the table. The obligatory anime-inspired art style would be a start, but if they could come up with a way to expand the war battles of V into a full-blown RTS game, I think they could make something pretty special.

[Feldoon]

Albeit I have yet to play V and experience its war battles, I hope you just mean V's style and not V's battles.

Just repeating the war battles with a ramped up engine is silly.

[Kirkis]

Suiko5's RTS was pretty umm... unique. It was like some weird cross between Suikoden II's battle system, the Rock, Paper, Scissors system suiko is famous for, and then an RTS game.

I'd much prefer a full blown RTS game with actual individual units, etc. But, it would HAVE to be for the PC, either that or allow use of the keyboard & mouse on a PS2/PS3, because RTS + Controller just never seem to work out.

[Darian]

Suiko5's RTS was pretty umm... unique. It was like some weird cross between Suikoden II's battle system, the Rock, Paper, Scissors system suiko is famous for, and then an RTS game.

I'd much prefer a full blown RTS game with actual individual units, etc. But, it would HAVE to be for the PC, either that or allow use of the keyboard & mouse on a PS2/PS3, because RTS + Controller just never seem to work out.

That's what I meant when I said "expand." I don't expect just one level after another of having Suiko V war battles. I just meant that SV gave us real-time strategy battles and that if they were to expand on the concept, they could come up with something interesting. Instead of individual units, you'd have unit groups (which has become a standard for RTS games anyway), you could assign commanders to units that would give them various perks, and then of course the art style.

What I wouldn't want to see is a Suikoden RTS where you build buildings, build workers, collect resources, and spam out your most expendable soldiers to zerg out on your opponent (i.e., the vast majority of RTS games).

I'd like to see something more along the lines of the Total War games with minor RPG elements (stats and modifiers) than, say, StarCraft. You keep the rock, paper, scissors formula (as many RTS games do), and make it more complex (since there would be more than 3 or 4 unit types).

Basically: most RTS games miss one important thing: the S. SV's war battles involved actual strategy along the lines that the Total War games do and that's what I think they should do. If they're just going to make another StarCraft, WarCraft, WarHammer, etc., then what's the point?

[hotspot]

I hope that they do make a new tactics, i hope that they will have either a new character with a boomerang or an old character(4 characters so far have boomerangs or a type of boomerang) although they probabally wouldn't have weapon specific runes( unless it was a rune that made the boomerang attack in certain ways like all enemies in a certain area).

For a stange reason i feel that if konami makes a new tactics, it will have many suikoden 5 characters.

[Rody]

I'd like to see that battle they always talk about in the first game. That would be so awesome to play as Teo when he was a young man, and see all the other generals when they were younger.

But it would be cool to see what happened with Viktor and Flik, too, between the first and second games, as they are raising their little merc army. Which I guess would be dumb, actually, so never mind. They don't have anyone cool in the merc army before Riou comes along... Just that guy Pohl and Leona and Gengen I think... Tuta stops by sometimes. Well, I guess it could be pretty interesting. Anyway....