Consider the timeline

Verek · Post by **Verek** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:24 am

Consider if you will the timeline of the Suikoden series. S4 happens 142 years before S5, which happens 8 years before S1, which happens 3 years before S2, which happens 15 years before S3. Where is there to go without having to retcon canon... not that Konami seems to have a problem with doing so. The time spans between the games could have had noteworthy events happen within them, but with the position of the games on the timeline, we likely would have heard about these events. Therefore, it occurs to me that the only place for them to go is either the period before S4, the period between S4 and S5, or the period after S3. That said, that doesn't leave a lot of room for recurring characters, since the timespans are so broad in the areas where there is enough room to write in a new game.

So, basically what I'm saying is that there's not a whole lot of room to maneuver without sliding in events between the games that probably would have been mentioned somewhere within them.

Here are some of the events in canon, or at least canon according to the Suikosource timeline that could support a Suikoden game.

1. The founding of Harmonia: This one is obvious, and could be done without ending the series, since it's something that is already known to have happened.

2. The story of Klift and the Warrior's Village: This could be an interesting story because a lot of fans love characters from the Warrior's Village, Flik in particular, and because the story hasn't been particularly well developed, giving the developers room to work with.

3. The story of the Great Contract in the Great Forest of Toran: This one could include a non-human Tenkei and would be based on the elves, kobolds, and dwarves that people seem to love so much. Then again, there's not a lot of unity here. In fact, the contract separates the races, so if a game were made here, it would have to focus on one race... or do a Trinity Sight System showing the point of view of all three. This one would be difficult to work with.

4. The Southwindow Rebellion: Apparently it happened well before S4, a good 50 years, so who knows. Quite a bit of room to work with here, though it sounds like a smaller scale conflict than others in the series.

5. First Fire Bringer War: Didn't end on a particularly good note, so no happy endings with out a lot of retconning.

And that's about it for confirmed events in the Suikoden timeline. The other events could make games based in the Suikoden World... for example, what Viktor and Flik were doing after the Dunan Unification War, how they met Edge, etc, but they wouldn't make very good Suikoden GAMES, as in, collecting the Stars of Destiny, large scale strategic battles and whatnot. Basically, more conventional RPGs.

Personally, I'd like to see the next game based a bit in the future, perhaps 35-50 years after Suikoden III, about the rapid colonization of the Western Continent and the struggle between the nations with colonial holdings, eventually ending with the Tenkei of the game uniting colonists to form a new, sovereign nation. People from all over could be part of the game, seeking fortune/fame/etc in the "New World", and given the nature of the Suikoden world, this game would probably have a sort of American Old West/Japanese Warring States period/European Age of Exploration feel to it. And to appease the recurring characters fanatics, drum up some familial relationships between previous SoDs and give 'em some children. Also, either a main character that looks and is male, or a female Tenkei, as opposed to a long line of male characters who looked female. Just my 2 cents.

Falenan_descent · Post by **Falenan_descent** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:47 am

Well, I think the next Suikoden is SERIOUSLY aiming towards the New Armes struggle. Shula Valya even mentions that the New Armes government system is much like Falena's and there is a possible civil war about to start. And the fact that Old Armes was mentioned but not thoroughly explained is another point. I'm aiming for New Armes.

Verek · Post by **Verek** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:53 pm

That's possible, I suppose, but remember that it lies within the current canon timeline, and nothing has been said about it... which either means 26 years in the timeline from V to III passed without anything happening in New Armes. I suppose that's possible, but then the recurring characters would be pretty limited. My point was that there was nowhere in the Suikotimeline for the developers to go without disrupting canon and seriously retconning some things. Most likely, we would have heard about the New Armes conflict in Suikoden I, II, or III since it would most likely fall in that time period.

So, for the New Armes conflict to happen, it would most likely occur in the 8 years between the Falenan Civil War and the Gate Rune War, but since there was no mention of any such conflict occurring in Suikoden I, a lot of things would have to be seriously retconned for events to fit together nicely, because it seems silly that no one would have mentioned a conflict, especially with all the professional soldiers, wanderers, and politicians in Suikoden I who probably would have known about or fought in such a conflict. Then again, with retconning, there could be plenty of recurring characters from V, I, and II, especially amongst the wanderers and mercenaries from I and II particularly the older ones, and story characters from V. But yeah, anyway, it doesn't really slot into the existing storyline very well because there is absolutely no mention of such an event occurring in any of the games that happen chronologically after V.

Falenan_descent · Post by **Falenan_descent** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:59 pm

But we did hear about the New Armes conflict. We heard it in V. And in Suikoden I New Armes didn't exist. and wasn't mentioned. Which just means that it makes even more sense for that to be the next war because it isn't mentioned anywhere after I so it was resolved before then. My two potch D:

Iku · Post by **Iku** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:52 pm

new armes is a fair distance from toran!

Verek · Post by **Verek** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:27 pm

Well, obviously we heard about it in V, because it was a bordering nation. We didn't hear anything about a civil war or any other kind of conflict in any of the games that happened chronologically after V. Now, yes, Falena is far from the northern continent, but I still think that we would have heard something about it, since we /did/ hear something about the Sun Rune War in Suikoden II and III. At least, I'm pretty sure there's at least one or two vague references somewhere.

Also, how did New Armes not exist in Suikoden I?

Falenan_descent · Post by **Falenan_descent** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:16 pm

Well, in theory it does. But, the creators weren't thinking that far ahead. I doubt even by Suikoden III New Armes wasn't even thought about. Falena was just part of Georg's background at first. Now its a full-blown story.

Post by **patapi** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:35 pm

Also, how did New Armes not exist in Suikoden I?

We didn't hear of any other nations besides Scarlet Moon Empire/Toran, Dunan and Harmonia in Suikoden I anyway. New nations are retconned into the series as they go along, most likely.

Verek · Post by **Verek** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:15 am

True enough. But I must say... that's pretty weaksauce right there. I have a feeling Murayama had a large amount of the game world created in his mind, if not on paper. But since he's not part of the Suikoden development team anymore, I suppose that doesn't matter much...

Just on a sidenote, where did the 'official' map of the Suikoden world come from, and when was it made? Because, obviously, there are quite a few nations on the map that we pretty much know nothing about, for example, the area to the west of the Toran Republic, which doesn't even have a name, the Nameless Lands which... well, I guess it doesn't have a name either... The Camaro Free Knights, Kanakan, the lands that were the Former Kooluk Empire, the island to the northeast of Falena, and the continent further east from there, Zelant, and the entire western continent. Some of the other nations, such as The Gaien Dukedom and Nagarea, have been mentioned, but we still don't know much about them. It's still a rather large world out there... the devs don't need to resort to retconning events because there is so much land and time to work with... then again, I guess fans are really hungry for recurring characters. Personally, I think it's a nice touch at times. I mean, I was definitely excited when Viktor and Flik showed up in S2, and Georg being a main character in V was awesome as well, Lorelai and Killey were a nice touch too... other than that, though, I must admit that I'm not particularly a big fan of Viki or Jeane.

Also, I think it's important to remember just how rushed Suikoden I was when it hit shelves. A lot of less important backstory, like that of other nations in the world further away from Toran's immediate neighbors and the eminent Harmonia could have been cut out to save time.

Post by **patapi** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:01 pm

Verek wrote:Just on a sidenote, where did the 'official' map of the Suikoden world come from, and when was it made?

The most recent (and therefore most complete) world map was released alongside Suikoden V in a video format. Who knows when the map was made.

Also, I think it's important to remember just how rushed Suikoden I was when it hit shelves. A lot of less important backstory, like that of other nations in the world further away from Toran's immediate neighbors and the eminent Harmonia could have been cut out to save time.

Oh, so Suikoden I is considered rushed now? More like the game wasn't made with sequels in mind. This also explains the abundance of new nations being named in the following game, Suikoden II.

Falenan_descent · Post by **Falenan_descent** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:31 am

More like the game wasn't made with sequels in mind.

Yeah, it was meant to be a one hit wonder. Ha! Ha! Ha!

amelia108 · Post by **amelia108** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:43 pm

i think the premise of colonies going to a new continent is splendid. one: it hasn't been done yet. two: there's so many awesome things that can be done with it... dealing with the natives... warring colonies... corrupt officials... fountain of youth... el dorado.

one thing that might be wrong with it is the lack of presence of a BIG gov't, etc. i can't really see big army battles when it has so much to do with colonizing... we could do the whole american/britain revolutionary war thing, but that happened decidedly far after the first settlers. not to mention if we're going to deal with two different nations across a great void of sea, there's going to be a lot of long boat rides, which would definitely get bothersome.

i really do think it's a great idea though, just a few kinks to be worked out. i'd love to see it in a future suikoden game.

Verek · Post by **Verek** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:53 pm

The 'big' armies would probably be militias formed by colonial loyalists, likely with some aid from the mother country. Still, since it's a game, things can be fudged a bit to say that the population in the colony boomed substantially, or that developments in naval technology allow for faster ships. After all, the ships of the Suikoden world have runes that allow them to travel faster, if I'm not mistaken.

Or maybe the Suikoden devs will throw us all a curveball and make the next game about the 108 Stars of Destiny uniting to fight off the zombie apocalypse, collect bits of brightly colored string, or do their taxes. Whee!

Falenan_descent · Post by **Falenan_descent** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:43 am

i think the premise of colonies going to a new continent is splendid. one: it hasn't been done yet. two: there's so many awesome things that can be done with it... dealing with the natives... warring colonies... corrupt officials... fountain of youth... el dorado.

But the reason Suikoden works is because Suikoden is always about the underdog coming out on top to win. There would already have to be a nation formed on the Western continent. Having two nations compete for a nation is more...a...Warcraft/AOE thing. But I could be crazy

)

Verek · Post by **Verek** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:48 pm

I was thinking more along the lines of all the involved colonial governments losing out to a new government established by the hero and the Stars of Destiny, one that truly has the best interests of the colonists and the continent at heart.