I want old dudes back

A place to post news and also give your ideas about the future of the Suikoden series.
Please justify all speculations with reasons why you think such an event could happen.
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Oppenheimer
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Post by Oppenheimer »

Jowy Atreides wrote: As others have already said, we don't like his character because he accessorizes like a wannabe goth. We like him, and people like Luc (whom fan girls love to death) because they are interesting characters, to us, clothing aside. To group us all together is a tad arrogant.
Interesting is subjective. Why do you find Pesmerga interesting and not someone like Watari who is equally mysterious? So it's not his apperance, then what is it? My argument is that there's nothing to him so what could you possibly be interested in, when there are people who have more to them and are mysterious and you're not interested in them.

And I never said I wasn't arrogant :wink: but really don't take it so personally, I'm not attacking anyone's character here. The only character I'm attacking is mister 'merga
27x4=108 wrote:Nobody knows were Millie comes from, the rune she uses is so strange, cuz it seems she sumoned Bonaparte from other dimension, her weapon is quite cool too, and she is the only one in suikoden II to have rank A affinity with pale gate.
I agree, Millie over Pessy any day of the week. Where did she get Bonaparte and how did she tame him? Is she really as dumb as she appears? Reminds me a bit of Jeane.
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Post by Rezard »

Oppenheimer wrote:Interesting is subjective. Why do you find Pesmerga interesting and not someone like Watari who is equally mysterious?
"Equally mysterious" is a bit much, Yuber is one of the most mysterious characters in Suikoden, he is ageless, he is causing chaos for more them 300 years, he isn't human, he has a true rune, his duel will happen in the last Suikoden and he is quite powerful.

Watari is just ordinary ninja who is being hunted down, he is mysterious, but he doesn't even compare with Yuber.

But I find that the cool outfit helps and the cool powers helps even more, but certainly that's not all there is to it.
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Post by Oppenheimer »

I'm not arguing about Yuber. He gets lots of screen time. I'm talking about Pesmerga. Watari is equally if not more mysterious than Pesmerga.
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Post by Sniper_Zegai »

This points to the obvious qeustion. Lets ignore Yuber for a second. Why is Pesmerga mysterious. Not much is known about him but hes not really mysterious hes just a swordsman who looks like Yuber who chases him everywhere. He could just be a ordinary swordsman who's a little weird. I dont think thats the fate Konami has planned for Pessy but still it stands to reason.
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Post by Rezard »

I'm not arguing about Yuber. He gets lots of screen time. I'm talking about Pesmerga. Watari is equally if not more mysterious than Pesmerga.
Sorry about that, I kind missed and came late to edit.

Well, Persmega is directly linked to Yuber, their story is one. If Yuber is mysterious, so it is Persmega. He is mysterious simply because he is linked to Yuber, causing everybody to have all kinds of unanswered questions about him: Is he ageless? Is he human? Does he have a true rune?

Not to mention that he has his own mysteries: the fact that he is a shadow (Richmond's investigations), reason to hunt down the mighty Yuber, who he will fight in the last game, and why Yuber, who loves to fight, avoids battle with Persmega.

To a lesser extension, but Persmega is also very mysterious, the fact that he is linked to Yuber makes him much more interesting. He seems to me much more mysterious them Watari.
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Post by Fury »

Oppenheimer wrote:Okay, you want a side plot that's unresolved?

Watari is on the run. He has a mysterious background and a mysterious group, etc. We haven't discovered the end to his story . . . but no one talks about him and he got a few story sequences. However, Pesmerga is talked about incessently.

I seriously think the draw to Pessy is the black armour. He looks "cool" so people obsess about him. There's no more deep reason than that.

I'm just sick and tired of hearing about how interesting a guy is who gets a grand total of two lines over the course of two games, and hasn't been heard from for 3 games.

We should be encouraging Konami when they make well developed characters, with plot and feeling and depth. To give them so much praise for a palate swap of a character that didn't do anything interesting until Suikoden III? Is just asking them to be lazy. Anyway, I digress.
In all fairness, it's no more befitting of a mod to bash opinions than it is for any average Joe to do the same.

I'm really good at dismissing appearance for strength and stats. Pesmerga was an incredibly strong character, like I've already stated, and I tend to get attached to those. I haven't brought up others for a few reasons. The discussion seems to have been centered around Pesmerga and a handful of support characters. Plus, Pesmerga has been around since the beginning, and what piqued our interest the most is that Yuber appeared without Pesmerga for the first time in Suikoden 3, now we haven't heard anything of either of them since.

Since you want to know other characters, let's venture into some.

Someone mentioned Millie. She's nice, with a strange pet, but you know, seeing all of the monsters you fight in random battles, Bonaparte doesn't strike me as something very strange.

I'll say Emily from Suikoden 3. An insanely strong character that can multihit like crazy...and she's only a kid. Anything seem strange about that? Nothing flashy about her except her stats.

How about Duke and his crew from Suikoden 3. Great group, but all we know about them is that they competed with Geddoe's group.

Crowley and Mazus have come up, and rightly so. They fought in a battle that devastated a large amount of land before they were even born. They can obviously time travel, which is big. They warrant attention.

Howling Voice Guild. We've encountered three gunners, Clive, Elza, and Cathari, excluding Nash, because he's sort of a different story. We could stand to see more about how the HVG works.

Americans would appreciate more Sierra Mikain. She's only appeared in one game over here, and the fact that she was so powerful and played a large part in the game really warrants a comeback.

Bob from Suikoden 2 was a mysterious and unique character. So far, he's the only werewolf in the Suikoden world. Where did he come from? How did he become what he is? The only other character close to him is Ernst from Suikoden V.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, but opinions are opinions. It just seems like people are more interested in finding out about Pesmerga first, then everything else falls afterwards.

There's nothing wrong with that.
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Post by Oppenheimer »

Fury wrote:In all fairness, it's no more befitting of a mod to bash opinions than it is for any average Joe to do the same.
There's a difference between taking personal jabs at a person and giving an impassioned argument for your position, with plenty of material to back it up your statements.
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

I don't really give a shoot about mysteriousness, I care about importance. Watari's future role, if any, would be isolated, and wouldn't really matter.

Yuber, being a man who holds a True Rune, and who has an insatiable appetite for chaos and killing, can cause a lot more trouble across the globe (as he already has), and Pesmerga wishes to slay him. This seems to be more important than a ninja whose past seems only ankle-deep.

And, even though I have been focusing on Pesmerga, I have made posts in the past referring to my love of Watari and his dudes. So, while the idea that I like Pesmerga more than Watari is true, I would love to learn more about both, just Pesmerga a little more.

Also, how can you argue that I only like a character for an isolated reason (mysteriousness), and not another for the same reason, when I've said nothing about one of them (Watari), at least in this thread?

I understand that my interest in his character is subjective, hence the diction "to us." Other people here seem to like his character for reasons other than black armor, so I grouped us together.

Lastly, I personally don't think Yuber & Pesmerga can be separated, so I'd say if Yuber is important, so is Pesmerga. This is not meant to be part of the actual debate, just a side note.
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Post by Sniper_Zegai »

Jowy Atreides wrote:Yuber, being a man who holds a True Rune, and who has an insatiable appetite for chaos and killing, can cause a lot more trouble across the globe

Lastly, I personally don't think Yuber & Pesmerga can be separated, so I'd say if Yuber is important, so is Pesmerga. This is not meant to be part of the actual debate, just a side note.
Anyone who holds a true rune will always have an important and un-deniable place in the Suikoden world. Nothing will change that and until all the 27 true runes and their powers have been fully revealed I believe that Yuber (as Jowy pointed out) and Pesmerga will be the subject of fascination because of their on-going rivalry. I dont know what Konami have planned but it must be huge. Its a shame we have to wait until the last Suikoden to find out though.
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Post by Auragaea »

Fury wrote:Since you want to know other characters, let's venture into some.

Someone mentioned Millie. She's nice, with a strange pet, but you know, seeing all of the monsters you fight in random battles, Bonaparte doesn't strike me as something very strange.
Even if it doesn't strike one as strange, it is a mystery that someone like Millie could obtain such a creature like Bonaparte.
Fury wrote:I'll say Emily from Suikoden 3. An insanely strong character that can multihit like crazy...and she's only a kid. Anything seem strange about that? Nothing flashy about her except her stats.
Well, she was the daughter of Ronnie Bell from SI, and if you've played it, Ronnie is a super strong woman. Either she trained very hard to get that strong, or it is passed through genetics.
Fury wrote:How about Duke and his crew from Suikoden 3. Great group, but all we know about them is that they competed with Geddoe's group.
I agree.
Fury wrote:Crowley and Mazus have come up, and rightly so. They fought in a battle that devastated a large amount of land before they were even born. They can obviously time travel, which is big. They warrant attention.
I also agree.
Fury wrote:Howling Voice Guild. We've encountered three gunners, Clive, Elza, and Cathari, excluding Nash, because he's sort of a different story. We could stand to see more about how the HVG works.
I was thinking about adding them onto my list of characters I would like to see recur, but the whole Clive and Elza thing was resolved in SII, and I haven't really played SV, so I can't say much about Cathari.
Fury wrote:Americans would appreciate more Sierra Mikain. She's only appeared in one game over here, and the fact that she was so powerful and played a large part in the game really warrants a comeback.
I don't really care much for Sierra, but I agree that she should have a comeback because of her large part in the franchise.
Fury wrote:Bob from Suikoden 2 was a mysterious and unique character. So far, he's the only werewolf in the Suikoden world. Where did he come from? How did he become what he is? The only other character close to him is Ernst from Suikoden V.
See, Bob is like Blackman to me. He's another person who just joins the team and has no background story to him, yet his past isn't that significant to the series' main story.

IIRC, in her quest for the Souleater, Windy destroyed a village of Lycanthorpes, but it could have been Neclord who did that. When it got destroyed, Bob probably escaped.
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Post by LadyRhia »

Hm, since we're on the topic of "Mysterious characters people want to know more about" I'd have to say one of the biggest mysteries is Mike from Suikoden III.

He doesn't look that interesting *cough*no black armor and little words to say*cough* and what's known if he laughs a lot and plays cards. But I find there's certain things that defintely make him as/more interesting than Pesmefa/Yuber. Like how he interacted with Kuroku compared to other people, or how he was introducing himself as an armsdealer named Leonard to Luc and said he was a detective to a man in a bar at Caleria, or those men in black that visit him, and the fact Watari knows him somehow.
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Post by Oppenheimer »

Jowy Atreides wrote: Lastly, I personally don't think Yuber & Pesmerga can be separated, so I'd say if Yuber is important, so is Pesmerga. This is not meant to be part of the actual debate, just a side note.
I'd say that they can easily be seperated. Pesmerga wasn't in Suikoden III at all. Pessy is paying a lot of attention to Yuber for sure but in the context of the game Yuber never even mentions Pesmerga (I realize there's that whole duel thing but that occured outside of the game). It really wouldn't surprise me if Yuber ever came back that Pessy was never mentioned again. Well, Yuber could also never be mentioned again. I suppose it all depends on if the prequel timeline will ever catch up and if Konami is interested in concluding that timeline now that what's-his-name is gone.
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Post by Jowy Atreides »

I'm having trouble finding the original source, but Kawano has said in the past that the current incarnation of the Suikoden team has not forgotten about these two characters, and that they'll use them eventually, probably keeping Murayama's "rules" in mind (last game, etc.)

I'll keep on looking around for the source, and edit this post later.

Edit: Actually, the source may have been wiped out whenever the Suikox forum lost some of its stuff a while ago.
Last edited by Jowy Atreides on Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sniper_Zegai »

Oppenheimer wrote:I'd say that they can easily be seperated. Pesmerga wasn't in Suikoden III at all. Pessy is paying a lot of attention to Yuber for sure but in the context of the game Yuber never even mentions Pesmerga
I always wondered why Yuber never mentioned or even responded to Pesmerga. But then again Yuber is the kind of character that would view Pesmerga as an annoyance more than anything.

Has Konami given a reason why Yuber never mentions Pesmerga? Surely Konami know how poular this rivalry is.
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Post by Night »

No, they haven't given any game reason, but game-wise Yuber seems effectively ignorant of Pesmerga. To be honest, it seems like it isn't so much rivalry as a vendetta on Pesmerga's part.
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