Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

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sticky-runes
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Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by sticky-runes »

Yes, its another remake topic, but I wanted to focus specifically on Suikoden 1. And it's just a "what if...?" so don't go taking it all to heart! Here are my thoughts:

2d vs 3d?
a lot of fans would appreciate the traditional 2d/top down visuals (so essentially the original graphics, but with improved details and more frames of animation)
Personally, Id rather see Suikoden 1 brought into the 21st century with full 3d graphics and free-romaing camera so I can experience the Scarlet Moon Empire/Toran Republic as I've never seen it before. I want to see all my favourite old characters up close and personal. I want to stand at the foot of Mt. Tigerwolf and think "f#ck me, I have to go all the way up there?" and I want to walk around Gregminster and Moravia looking up at immense towers. What visual style would you prefer?

Basics
Just want to get these things out of the way before I start getting creative:

Additional Rune slots
So that our suikoden 1 characters are no longer restricted to 1 rune. This'll give more versatility to characters with fixed runes like Stallion, Valeria, Kasumi and Ronnie. And of course, the hero.

A dash button
So we no longer need to equip holy runes.

More duels
Only 3 duels in the original? Give us more, and have them all uniquely animated like S5's duels.

Skill system
Physical improvements and improvements like in S3 and S5. and bring schools/dojos into some of the towns.

Beefing up the characters

Kai (combat instructor)
Kai is the ideal candidate for our physical combat instructor. He gets to improve our physical fighting skills in the castle, or on the fly when he's in the party. And it would be nice for him to make a sort of cameo appearance at the beginning of the game, so we can have a training session/mock duel with him while we're hanging around Gregminster re-acquainted with the McDohl household.

Hellion (magic instructor)
I'd like Hellion as the magical instructor, and she could perhaps offer Tir advice on his rune while Leknaat isn't around.

Onil (Mini quests)
Her hints were pretty useless in the original, but we could improve that. Suikoden Tierkreis had Anya as the castle gossip whore, and she would give us little missions that would activate conversations with some of the recruits to learn a little bit more about their back stories. This was one good touch that Tierkries had, so I'd like it brought into this game.

Jeane (rune sage)
Usable in party combat, with her lightning and charm runes, and also her rune sage skill so we can equip runes on the fly.

Viki
Usable in combat with her blinking rune.

Krin (thief)

Give him the ability to pilfer gold from enemies, and also collect extra gold and treasure after combat.

Antonio & Lester (Cooks)

Would be nice if they could actually have a kitchen and diner inside the castle, instead of just flanking Marie in her tiny little inn. And they can sell us some tasty healing items and bring in profits. Have them cook up edible items we find after killing monsters as well.

Rock (vault keeper)
I never really liked how he just casually joins a gang of strangers who have broken into his employer's mansion. Perhaps have him challenge us first, like Chuck does in S5, or even act as a sub boss. Then after we beat him, he can give his story about how he's always wanted to guard the biggest warehouse, and he joins afterwards. also, how about making him usable in combat since he's got all that muscle? Perhaps he can have a blitz rune that lets him throw crates and barrels at enemies! :lol: and he can provide extra inventory space while we're traveling (or just allow us access to the vault from any location.)

Meanwhile, back in Gregminster...
Suikoden 1 didn't have "meanwhile" scenes. It would be nice to have some, particularly showing what Windy gets up to, and how Teo reacts when he hears the news of his son being a rebel (he goes from kissing me goodnight to wanting to kill me on the battlefield - whoa... :shock: )

More books
This is an idea I've ripped off from Skyrim - lots and lots of books, not just 8 or 9. Loads. Histories on the Empire and other countries, including references to other games. Biographies on famous people. Research notes written by our inventors and magicians.

Add anything else you might like.
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ninjaluc79
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by ninjaluc79 »

Elemental Affinities
Magicians are rated based on their MAG stat and free rune slot in the original game. Elemental affinities allow for better specialization with Rune Magic. For example, Cleo would have above-average affinity to Fire, Luc would have supreme affinity to Wind, Hellion to Earth, Jeane to Lightning, and Crowley to offensive elements.

Free Rune Slots
Although I liked S4's "rune slot opening based on base MAG" system, I fear that this could open itself to abuse. Fortunately, phsyical damage wasn't that overpowered in the original game without Double-Strike, Fury, and Warrior runes. There were only skill runes, Counter and Killer runes. I fear that with the former 3 runes introduced in the remake, physical attacks can trump magic attacks.

I think that's unfair because physicals can be done infinitely, whereas magic has only limited charges (unless there are MP mints, which is equally overpowered in unlimited amounts).

I admit, I am a fan of spamming magic spells, but that doesn't mean I want magic to be always more powerful than physicals. What I'm looking for is a good enough balance between magic and physical attacks to accomodate various playing styles (all-physical parties, all-magic parties, and balanced parties). My problem with offensive spells in later Suikoden games is that they become next to useless by the end game because the enemies have absurdly high MDEF and it's much easier but more boring to press Auto-Attack all the time.

Shield and Sword Runes
These may or may not be included in the remake, since their parent rune, the Rune of Beginning, was not yet introduced until in S2.

Long-Ranged Attacks for S-Ranged Magicians
Some people don't like to use magicians like Luc, Crowley, and Viki because "they occupy a back row slot which could be used for mid-to-long ranged attacker", and "they can't fight from the front row to save their lives". This feature serves only for these magicians to be able to do something in normal battles when they don't need to use any spells. The attack would be based on their MAG stat and is affected by the enemy's MDEF. This may be used as an alternate attack when the mage is placed at the back row, or could be used via a Staff-exclusive skill rune such as Pixie.

More Duels
Recruitment Duels
Tir vs Kai
Tir vs Lorelai
Tir vs Rock (as stated above)
Kirkis vs Rubi
Tir vs Quincy (?)

Story Duels
Tir vs Sonya Shulen (the earlier boss fight may or may not be omitted)
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sticky-runes
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by sticky-runes »

Kirkis vs Rubi
I like this idea. They'd likely be shooting at each other, but it they could probably also include using their bows to hit each other and block physical attacks *

Fight with Sonya
Tir vs Sonya in a duel is a nice idea, since she wants to avenge Teo with her own hands, and it make sit more personal. Maybe she could also show up with her honour guard for a group boss battle (a bunch of sexy soldier woman also skilled in magic and weapons?)

As for the shell venus boss, that was kind of a silly idea. They could omit that, or improve the design and give it nice pearly textures (but it might look like a semen monster! :lol: )

*Melee attacks for Archers
This is something I've always wanted for suikoden - long range fighters to use counter attacks. I'm not talking about archers running up to an enemy to hit him, that would be pointless, but if an enemy does get close to an archer, the archer could smack him with the bow and cause light damage. Better than just jumping out of the way. Maybe the odd character could even use a point black shot!

Knife throwers could obviously stab enemies as a counter attack.

Long range wand attacks?
Suikoden 2 gave us pixie runes so that wand users could perform a physical attack from any row, but that seemed kinda pointless. But other suikoden games have allows sorcerer types to teleport up to enemies and whack them as a standard physical attack, and sometimes even fire magic bolts. So, how would you feel about converting sorcerer types from S-range to L-range?

EDIT - Sorry ninjaluc, I missed the part where you spoke about magician attacks!

Making Auto more exciting
It gets a bit boring using the free will/auto command to quickly kill enemies and get to the next boss/story bit. I've always liked the idea of activating certain runes and unite attacks so that they become used in auto combat instead of regular attacks. Unite attacks don't cost any MP, neither do weapon technique runes like Boar and Shrike. and if you're worried about side effects like the unbalance status, then just deactivate it from auto.
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ninjaluc79
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by ninjaluc79 »

*Fight with Sonya
I meant the boss battle against Sonya, not the Shell Venus. I think Shasarazade is not complete without Shell Venus. But I do agree with improving Shell Venus' design, but I don't know what could make it a semen monster.

Normal Attacks for Magicians
Fire bolts are better than teleporting towards an enemy then whacking it with your staff (unless Fire is not your natural element), but I guess really powerful magicians can pull off the latter.

*Counter-Attacks for L-Ranged Characters
Archers can have a sort of knife as a sidearm for use when performing counter-attacks. Knife-throwers can just use their knives to stab their foes when counter-attacking.
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sticky-runes
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by sticky-runes »

Viki and Jeane can use teleport attacks. Luc, Lotte, Hellion and Crowley can use zap attacks. No more sneezing for Viki though, because that got on my nerves. Perhaps just have the sneezing as an occasional random goof.

How about supporting characters? Would be nice if we could actually use some of them in combat if we wanted to.

Marie: uses a rolling pin or other kitchen appliance as a weapon. Has a group recovery skill after combat.
Chandler: discount in shops and trade in items.
Kun To: discount in shops and trade in items.
Ivanov: uses a craft knife as a weapon. I'm sure he could provide some sort of artistic related bonus, like increased antique pick ups or something.
Sancho: Can use a mace or something as a weapon. Potchfinder.
Jabba: auto-appraises ? items.
Esmeralda: uses a parasol or fan as a weapon, and has good magical stats. Narcisus attack with other narcisists.
Melodye: uses a flute or whistle or something. Has the jongleur effect or whatever it was called in S3.
Chapman: increases everyone's armour rating while he's in the party.
Marco: knives or darts as a weapon. Potchfinder.
Hugo: Uses a hardcover book like Alhazred in S5. Can increase everyone's magical damage or something with his book smart influences.
Kasios: Uses the harp. Has the jongleur effect or whatever it's called. Changes battle music.
Vincent: Uses his rapier like in S2 and has narcisus attack with other narcisists.
Taggert: Escape abilities to avoid fights and instantly exit dungeons (like an unlimited escape talisman.)
Giovani: knives or darts. Potchfinder. Protects Lepant family members when injured. Unite attacks with other thieves.
Rock: Fists. Extra inventory access.
Ledon: knives or darts. Comes equipped with poison rune. Potchfinder.
Gaspar: Knives or mace. Potchfinder. Increased luck for the group.
Zen: Uses a hoe or other gardening tool. Has a light recovery skill after combat.
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EstrangedIX
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by EstrangedIX »

Not sure I'd like all the support characters to also be fighters, but I love some of those support ideas, like Kasios changing up the battle music and Krin being a potchfinder. Kai and Hellion as trainers for a S3 type skill system would be sweet. Musicians with Jongleur would rock too. These are awesome ideas. I also like the 3D idea more now than I have in the past. I'd expect textures in Scarlet Moon to be on the rich side, so that would be visually stimulating if done right . And macros for auto would definitely make grinding more enjoyable.
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sticky-runes
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by sticky-runes »

Of course, you wouldn't HAVE to use the support characters in combat if you didn't want to. I hardly ever used Gary/Ema/Yu/Carrie and all that in Suikoden Tactics, since they didn't have any offensive abilities and their passive skills are only useful a couple of times before they become redundant, but it did bring a little bit of humour having non-combatants in a fight! Plus, it might make for some experimenting on a new game+.
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by EstrangedIX »

True. Anything for added replay value. I would want NG+ bonuses too, like having another character walk around like in IV.

This is weird, but what about retroactive save bonuses from the prequels? Like adding in books or random bits of conversation that reference your choices in those games.

Seeing the Silverberg house would be sweet, especially if we'd get to see a young Albert, and if there would be a reference to Elenor.
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sticky-runes
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by sticky-runes »

New shops & Services
I'm having a bit too much fun writing lists here :idea:
Just thought I'd make notes of how I re-imagine the towns with new facilities added in. I've included the original shops as well to give a better idea of how the it would be overall.

Gregminster
Marie's Inn
Item and Armour shop
Rune shop
Appraiser
Combat training - situated on the palace grounds because its where the soldiers get training.
Magic training - possibly paired with the rune shop, or on the palace grounds.

Lenankamp
Rune shop
Inn
Armour shop
Blacksmith
Trading post

Sarady
Inn
Item shop
Combat training - I know it's only a remote mountain village, but we could do with a training center after crossign the mountains, and those villagers would need at least some fighters to protect their homes from monsters and bandits!

Kouan
Inn
Appraiser
Armour shop
Combat Training - it's kind of a military outpost where Kraze gets stationed with his soldiers, so I guess it makes sense.
Magic Training - Kouan is a little bit richer than the other nearby villages, so they would have some sort of education center.
Trading post - Lepant has a stint as a merchant in this town, so maybe he leaves his business to some colleagues like a lot of shopkeepers do when we recruit them.

Kobold Village
Inn
Item shop
Shop
Combat training - Kuromimi has a force of kobolds when we see him preparing for the big battle near the end, so they should have a barracks.
Magic training - it could be run by a friendly version of one of those robed magician kobolds that we fight when travelling!
Trading post - for selling those 'shiny objects'! :wink:

Village of the Elves
Inn
item shop
Armour shop
Rune shop
Combat training - The chief has quite a lot of guards, so there probably should be one.
Magic training - they're kind of a mystical folk, so I imagine them having a magic training center.

Antei
Inn
item shop
armour shop
rune shop
combat training
Magic training
Trading post

Kirov
Inn
item shop
armour shop
rune shop
trading post This could be Kun To's place. All kinds of shady deals going on here!

Warrior's Village
Inn
Item shop
Armour shop
Blacksmith
Combat training It would be a crime for them not to have one!

Qlon temple
I imagine this place being a bit bigger than the original, with more priests.
Combat training because it's about discipline and purity and all that.
Magic training they have a library, so there could be a priest offering spiritual guidance and stuff.
trading post some monasteries also served as trading posts in the old days, right?

Dragon Knight's castle
Inn
Combat training receive lessons from the dragon knights themselves!
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sticky-runes
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by sticky-runes »

EstrangedIX wrote: This is weird, but what about retroactive save bonuses from the prequels? Like adding in books or random bits of conversation that reference your choices in those games.
I'm not sure if there are compatibility issues between new gen consoles and old PS2 memory cards...

But they could easily add references to past events into conversations and books, like the Island wars and Queendom.

A Silverberg family tree found among Apple's notes would be nice! Maybe even a biography of Elenor written by Agnes.

Maybe if you take Jeane and/or Viki along on the mission where you see Ted, they can later say something like "there's something familiar about that boy..."

And maybe if you talk to Ted while he's sleeping at the beginning of the game, he speaks one of his lines of dialogue from S4!

Lorelai can probably briefly mention something about Zweig and Killey. And if you beat her in a duel, she can say you remind her of that boy from Falena!
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Sasarai10
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by Sasarai10 »

- First of all make the game longer,about twice let's say,it's very short. If you rush it you can finish it within 5 hrs or less.
- Meanwhile scenes of course,character's voice,and cutscenes.
-I'd like BETTER war battles. This paper/rock/sciscors type,is ultra-boring :|
As i said in S2's remake topic,i'd like something like S3 or S5's war battles.
- I don't care much about duels,i find them dull to tell the truth,so 3 are enough for me. But at least they must do it like S5's duels.
-3D graphics of course
- Training and Magic halls are welcomed,as well the skill system....but NO trading posts :evil:
- Onil could act as a detective
- I'd like something like Reinhold's training arena,in S4,were you could battle against your allies. Eikei could handle this i guess.
- Antonio and Lester could be cooks of course,and i'd like cook-off contests too and collecting recipes. Plus having Tai Ho as a fisherman (with fishing rod) and Yam Koo casting the net,so you can catch fish and different items,around Toran's lake
- Have about 10 slots,and making every character playable (including support characters), like it was in S3.
- Have the ability to put Tir in your support
- Dash button of course
- A battle simulator (Mathiu could handle this) so you can replay previous war battles,like a mini-game. Also i'd like to have grades for war-battles (A,B,C,etc) like it was in Exit Fate,and according to your grade you'll get a certain item.
- 3 Rune slots,and a weapon rune slot,and have the ability to make scrolls. Although it'll be good to be like S4,were R.S. were oppened up,according to your magic points,so you won't crash the game,with physical damage dealers who have 3 rune slots,like it was in S2 or S5
- New game+,and have the ability to load S5 data,so you can get some extra dialogue from Lorelai,let's say about some Sindar Ruins around Toran,and recruit Frey as a special non-star character. I mean if you load S5 then you'll recruit her,if you speak with her in your HQ she'll mention something about some Sindar Ruins around Toran,and she asks you to take her there. and there you'll find Frey,but this could only be possible if you get the bad ending from S5,where Frey wonders alone,so it'll make some sense that he ended up in Toran after many years. :wink:
- And last but not least....make Teo recruitable,instead of someone like Qlon,for example. So we could have all 5 generals together.


I'm i demanding to much? :|


P.S.: Now that i mentioned about recruiting Frey,another great idea,would be to recruit Lazlo (he'll probably still be alive,because he has a TR,although he doesn't use it anymore) wondering around the seas,being 170 years old or so. Let's say you would find him around Toran's lake. But since it would technically be impossible to load data from 2 different games,you would choose either to upload a S4 data (good ending) or a S5 data (bad ending).

So here's an imaginary dialogue if you load S4 data:

You have already recruited all 108 stars in S1,and then you talk to Tai Ho in your castle and he says: "Hey Tir,i saw a young man south from here alone in a boat,could you please check this out?"
And then you sail south and you can trigger a cut scene...and then you choose to recruit him.

How does it sound? :)
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sticky-runes
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by sticky-runes »

I always thought the detectives were a silly idea, I think it would be fair and best if we automatically got profiles for each character as we recruited them. But Onil could be more about rumors, so you go to her and she gives info on potential recruits and says stuff like "what do you suppose that guy's problem is? Lets find out!" and when we finish these little investigations, the details get added to the character profiles.

As for trading - yes, i started a whole thread on how I didn't want any more trading posts! But they could improve it somehow to make it more interesting and more worthwhile, and it could include mini-quests and sub stories and rare treasures.
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Neclord X
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by Neclord X »

Remake are one of the cancers in entertaiment industries IMO, but In the hipothetical case a remake was done I would like the EXACTLY the same game with better graphics and add some new things (some dungeons, characters, etc) but I wouldn't touch the game system or modify something already in the game.

Persona 4 Golden is the line to follow.
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sticky-runes
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by sticky-runes »

- And last but not least....make Teo recruitable,instead of someone like Qlon,for example. So we could have all 5 generals together.

Keeping Teo alive would defeat the purpose of the Soul Eater, which is supposed to claim the lives of your nearest and dearest. If it didn't take Teo's soul, then it wouldn't be much of a cursed rune, would it.

It would be best if they keep all the exact same 108 stars of destiny, but just give them more dialogue and make them more interesting.

So in Qlon's case, they could give him some sort of back story and interaction with other characters, instead of him just being some random kid who is obsessed with calling out the town's name. Perhaps he could keep us updated on news of the castle's refurbishment as we expand and recruit more people.
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Sasarai10
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Re: Ideas for a Suikoden 1 remake

Post by Sasarai10 »

sticky-runes wrote:- And last but not least....make Teo recruitable,instead of someone like Qlon,for example. So we could have all 5 generals together.

Keeping Teo alive would defeat the purpose of the Soul Eater, which is supposed to claim the lives of your nearest and dearest. If it didn't take Teo's soul, then it wouldn't be much of a cursed rune, would it.

It would be best if they keep all the exact same 108 stars of destiny, but just give them more dialogue and make them more interesting.

So in Qlon's case, they could give him some sort of back story and interaction with other characters, instead of him just being some random kid who is obsessed with calling out the town's name. Perhaps he could keep us updated on news of the castle's refurbishment as we expand and recruit more people.

That could be fixed...we would make Pahn killable,during the duel with Teo. Pahn was a person who was close to the hero...so here we have it! :wink:

A good idea would be,if we use Qlon as castle reporter
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