Succession War would rock, but...

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Icegryphon
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Succession War would rock, but...

Post by Icegryphon »

Just look at what we know:

1) Barbarossa is the prince, he takes off to fight the City-State and while he's gone the thrown is usurped by his uncle. This is rad because it's a different start than most of the other Suikos. You're actually the prince (which is similar to 5, but only you're a badass general who's already on the throne) and you go off to fight in a war and while you're gone your rightful place is taken. This is very different because all other Suikos, you have no claim to fame/fortune/throne. In 1 you're the son of a general who's never even worked for the military. In 2 you're some kid from a backwater town who was part of a youth brigade and about to go home. In 3 you're, well, you're a lot of people, but as I consider Hugo to be the main dude, you're just some cool kid from a tribe. In 4 you're a guy training to be a grunt. In 5 you're a prince who basically has as much political power as I do. So yeah, starting out on the throne and having it usurped is a different twist that I like.

2) Teo, Kasim, Milich, Sonya, Kwanda, Georg, etc.... Are characters you would get to have in your party. How rad would that be? We all love the continuity between the series, that's one of the best parts of the game. Everyone has wanted to be Georg more (I know I have) especially in his youth. Everyone has wanted to be Teo (We all wanted to get him in Suiko1). EVERYONE has wanted to have the Sovereign Rune as their true rune and be able to turn into a dragon as its ability (how rad would that be?). And of course using the other 4 generals when they're younger would also rock.

3) You could tie in so many other people and places and things in the game. You could even put Ted in there (how would the Emperor know anything about Ted later since he's just the friend of the son of one of his generals?). Mathiu and/or Leon would be your strategist, could have Odessa in there. Moose could be your blacksmith. Lots of different things could go on. I like the multitude of possibilities.

The only downside to it is that I'm sick of going to the past. I want to advance the story and get past what happens in Suiko3. I think there are a lot of ways to go with it. First off we wanna know about the other true runes. Second we wanna know who "inherits" the true wind rune (could be the new hero). We also wanna learn more about the Sindar, Harmonia, and Yuber. Wouldn't mind seeing what actually happened to Windy and Barbarossa after Suiko1 (supposedly they're not dead although I like to think that his real love or her mended her heart and they ended up living together happily in some small town or something).

So there are pros and cons to each. The pros of doing the Succession Wars is that it's ready made so less work for the Suiko team (which means we might actually get a 6th Suikoden) and that it's a rad story we all (or at least I) want to play. The cons of the Succession Wars is that it doesn't advance the story. And of course the opposites for doing something past Suiko3.

Your thoughts? I am sure this has been posted elsewhere but not necessarily recently or with this kind of correlation. So I wanted to put my thoughts down while they were fresh instead of searching for a similar topic, reading through it then posting.
"You got whacked because you're weak." - Magus
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patapi
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Re: Succession War would rock, but...

Post by patapi »

At this point, Scarlet Moon's Succession War is probably out of the question for a proper Suikoden installment. Bits of information has been released across various publications, and we noticed Konami's trend of avoiding from elaborating events heavily related to previous settings, unless they make spin-off titles like Gaiden and Rhapsodia. Even with V, while the Queen assassination story was alluded before in Georg's bios, the Queendom was still an entirely new setting for the series.
Icegryphon wrote:The only downside to it is that I'm sick of going to the past. I want to advance the story and get past what happens in Suiko3. I think there are a lot of ways to go with it. First off we wanna know about the other true runes. Second we wanna know who "inherits" the true wind rune (could be the new hero). We also wanna learn more about the Sindar, Harmonia, and Yuber. Wouldn't mind seeing what actually happened to Windy and Barbarossa after Suiko1 (supposedly they're not dead although I like to think that his real love or her mended her heart and they ended up living together happily in some small town or something).

So there are pros and cons to each. The pros of doing the Succession Wars is that it's ready made so less work for the Suiko team (which means we might actually get a 6th Suikoden) and that it's a rad story we all (or at least I) want to play. The cons of the Succession Wars is that it doesn't advance the story. And of course the opposites for doing something past Suiko3.
To this I ask: is timing really the issue, or is a direct follow-up to Suikoden III's plot what we are looking for here? Even if Konami did decide to place the next main installment after Suikoden III's timeframe, there is little guarantee that they must place it anywhere near the Zexen-Grasslands region. If anything, placing the next game in either New Armes or Nagarea (or even Zelant, albeit a bit far) would be best to pick up the hooks they left hanging at the end of Suikoden V. Even if chronologically the game would need to take place 20+ years later, to answer the fans' demands for a post-III timeframe.

I find it strange how many keep mentioning "advance the story", but what "story"? Each installment had had standalone stories, with only individual characters occasionally being shared and thus developed across titles where the story permits, but even then none of them are always around (even Leknaat, Viki and Jeane have had games that there were missing from). There is definitely no one specific story, so how are they suppose to advance something that's not there?
Your thoughts? I am sure this has been posted elsewhere but not necessarily recently or with this kind of correlation. So I wanted to put my thoughts down while they were fresh instead of searching for a similar topic, reading through it then posting.
Actually, by all means, please use the existing topics, if there are any similar to this one. It's always a good idea to also take into account earlier thoughts that people has had on the topic, if any. Necroposting is in fact encouraged here, unlike some places.
Icegryphon
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Re: Succession War would rock, but...

Post by Icegryphon »

No I don't mean to continue with Zexen and Grasslands, I just mean to take place in the future.

And there IS an existing story. I think I listed what I wanted but I'll list again...and these things could technically take place in the past but that'd be a tad odd.

1) Do stuff with Harmonia. I wanna see them fall or become a bigger part of the story after the catastrophe in S3.
2) Sindar. I wanna learn more about them and what's going on with them. Also makes sense taking place after S3 because of how much happens with them in S3 (can't even remember it all, just remember you visiting at least a few of their ruins).
3) Viki, Jeane, Leknaat, etc... I wanna learn more about these immortals and what they're about.
4) Another reason to advance the story is to see more people come back. That was one part about S4 that I didn't like was that the only really cool returning character was Ted. You couldn't have many others since they weren't born yet. And Viki and Jeane don't count because they're both in every single Suikoden. I'm talking about having Viktor and Flik in S2, or Georg in S2. Also if you went farther in the future you could possibly have Pesmerga again (Why the heck wasn't he in S3?).
5) Speaking of Pesmerga, i wanna see more of Yuber and what he's about.
6) I really wanna see who the next bearer of the Wind Rune is.
7) I want to learn more about the True Runes we haven't seen yet. Again this could be done in the past but not better to do it in the future IMO.

Anyway...most of the things I want answered would be best answered in the future.
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amelia108
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Re: Succession War would rock, but...

Post by amelia108 »

making a full-on 108 stars suikoden with the succession war just doesnt feel realistic. as it doesnt with the first firebringer war. an interesting side-story/side-game maybe, but gathering them for a different cause in relatively the same proximity as other games, which in this case will later turn on barbarossa (the most obvious tenkai if it were to happen) in suikoden i is just strange and gives the stars a wishy-washy feel. so no on a full entry dealing with it, but sure why not (although not likely) on a side-game. i'd play it (as long as it's not tactics lol).

i understand your feelings on putting the series into the future/present timeline again, and that's also what i want. the last two games were not only set in the past, but in a way they also felt stuck in the past (not to say they weren't still great games despite it). a game set after iii would just feel a lot more fresh. heck, even set it 30+ years after iii in some completely unknown region (western continent maybe). it would give it the feel of a new start. i would personally like that a lot. there's so much to play with there too.
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Re: Succession War would rock, but...

Post by blah1017 »

amelia108 wrote:making a full-on 108 stars suikoden with the succession war just doesnt feel realistic. as it doesnt with the first firebringer war. an interesting side-story/side-game maybe, but gathering them for a different cause in relatively the same proximity as other games, which in this case will later turn on barbarossa (the most obvious tenkai if it were to happen) in suikoden i is just strange and gives the stars a wishy-washy feel. so no on a full entry dealing with it, but sure why not (although not likely) on a side-game. i'd play it (as long as it's not tactics lol).

i understand your feelings on putting the series into the future/present timeline again, and that's also what i want. the last two games were not only set in the past, but in a way they also felt stuck in the past (not to say they weren't still great games despite it). a game set after iii would just feel a lot more fresh. heck, even set it 30+ years after iii in some completely unknown region (western continent maybe). it would give it the feel of a new start. i would personally like that a lot. there's so much to play with there too.
Agreed on all points here. I'd really like the story to move forward, and personally I want them to stick to one continent for awhile.

South, North, West. Just pick something and stay there for a few games Konami.

Also I think a side game detailing the Succession War and Fire Bringer war would be very interesting. Put multiple wars in one game in a scenario selection format, that way they can cover things they've already alluded to without cheapening the lore by forcing characters into situations that don't make sense. I mean really, 108 stars for either of those wars just doesn't make sense. At least not any that I can see.
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Re: Succession War would rock, but...

Post by The fighting 108 »

The 108 Stars seem to appear when ever the True Runes are at the heart of the war. So if the Succession war was really about the Sovereign Rune and not about the right of succession of Scarlet Moon, then there may possibly be a way to work in the 108 Stars. It could happen, though I'd rather we move on from the pre-S3 titles and look to the future.
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Re: Succession War would rock, but...

Post by amelia108 »

let me add that making the succession war and gate rune war (or whatever the official term for 1 is) both 108 star "causes," messes with continuity in ways that just irks me. yes, the succession war being a 108 star war is possible... but no one ever mentioning it? wouldn't a bunch of the characters remember it? have taken part in it? it's just... i don't like it.

see, 5 worked because it was just so far away and getting little news from falena if any at all seemed relatively believable. 4 worked for the same reason and because it was 150 years ago (then again the rune cannons came pretty close to messing with continuity... and the whole getting rid of business felt like a cheap ploy... still the game mostly worked). so you see? it's just not very believable to me because of its close time and location.
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Vextor
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Re: Succession War would rock, but...

Post by Vextor »

The succession war is always a very fun topic to talk about because there's so much material out there about the particular event. However, there are still many holes and uncertainties which I'd like to see filled.

In terms of working the 108 stars into the Succession War, there are a number of ways to incorporate it without making Barbarossa the Tenkai Star as well, sort of like how the plot of Final Fantasy Tactics worked out with two protagonists working at different levels. 108 Stars can possibly work to stop Geil Rugner or a dangerous subordinate who's manipulating Geil with the power of some unknown True Rune at a more "micro-level" instead of how Barbarossa is involved in a "macro-scale" conflict. The hero of such a force can be the token teenage boy that Konami just loves to make into the main protagonist.
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