Suikoden MMORPG

A place to post news and also give your ideas about the future of the Suikoden series.
Please justify all speculations with reasons why you think such an event could happen.
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ninjaluc79
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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby ninjaluc79 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:43 am

Please note that I'm creating only a stats simulator. Creating an actual game is too much for me right now.
But anyways, thanks for appreciating.
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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby gilgamesh31 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:52 am

I know, i know. Its still interesting though, maybe someday someone else will make a suikoden MMO and use it.
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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby ninjaluc79 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:19 pm

I'm actually thinking of a skill system wherein all active skills are accessed via runes (magic or otherwise), while all passive skills are accessed via skill points. Therefore, effect runes such as Killer, Gale, Double-Beat, and Double-Strike are disallowed, as these runes may cause a gameplay (and in-game economy) imbalance.

However, I am having trouble about using either Suikoden 1's spells or the ones in the later Suikodens, as the latter gives the elemental runes some flexibility by giving at least one offensive spell each. Also, I would like to balance Wind of Sleep in order not to make it less significant in later levels and at the same time not make it overpowered when used by pure mages (but it can be ineffective when used by say, the Warrior class).
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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby The Director » Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

I don't actually like the "class" systems. I prefer the idea that, if you invest the time, you can learn anything, albeit with a limit to how much you can "know" at one time. So imagine you wanted to become a Gunslinger as part of the Howling Voice Guild. That knowledge/training takes up "Skill space", but if you wanted to delete some of those skills in favour of others then you can. But you would have to relearn what you forget if you want overwritten skills back. So for instance I could specialise in distance by using a mixture of Guns, long range magic and skills that augment those.

But if I then wanted to change to different types of magic, then all I would have to do is forget LRM (or something else) and learn some other magic without having to delete/recreate my character.

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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby ninjaluc79 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:55 pm

Then we can instead set an "open class" system, but we will need to set a myriad of passive skills, but you can only obtain so much of these with limited skill points. Just imagine how game-breaking would it be if ALL players can have unlimited SP, thus being able to set ALL passive skills to the MAX. This will come down to who has the most "god-like" equipment once again. Unfair competition since richer players can benefit from being able to buy lots of cash-valued power-ups and skill points.

In character creation, one can set his initial stat growths (ranging from 10 to 14), the stat balances being as follows:

PWR <-> MAG
ARM <-> RES
TEC <-> LUK
SPD <-> HP

For example, for a melee-oriented tank, we can have:

PWR 14
ARM 14
MAG 10
RES 10
TEC 14
SPD 10
LUK 10
HP 28

While for a mage-type character, we can have:

PWR 10
ARM 10
MAG 14
RES 14
TEC 14
SPD 14
LUK 10
HP 20

Next, one can select a weapon to use, but each one has specific stat requirements in order to use it. For example, swords and claws would have minimum PWR requirements (around 12), bows and projectiles would have a minimum TEC requirement (12), and rods would have a minimum MAG requirements (12).

Next, select the armor class. For example, characters with initial 14 ARM can equip only heavy armors, 13 ARM and above can equip only light armors, 12 ARM light armors and vests, 11 ARM vests and robes, and 10 ARM only robes. In addition, 1-handed weapon users with at least 12 ARM can equip shields.

The only problem I have with this setup is that it would be weird seeing battle mages in heavy armors, LOL.

Please take note that under a "class system" I'm designing, most passive skills are basic and not class-specific (i.e., anyone who wishes to obtain these can do so as long as he/she has skill points for it), so you don't have to worry about class-specific passives taking up your valuable "skill space", as you can choose not to get those, unless of course your desired skills have prerequisites from the class-specific skills. But fortunately, we can make those pre-reqs worth it to be useful.

In your example, you're a gunner from HVG who wishes to specialize in distance. You can then get magic element affinities of your choice, and skills that increase attack power, hit rate, critical rate, and evasion rate. You can also add some HP, defense, resistance, and magic power if you have skill points to spare.
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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby Mikain Clan King » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:52 pm

ninjaluc79 wrote:I'm actually thinking of a skill system wherein all active skills are accessed via runes (magic or otherwise), while all passive skills are accessed via skill points. Therefore, effect runes such as Killer, Gale, Double-Beat, and Double-Strike are disallowed, as these runes may cause a gameplay (and in-game economy) imbalance.


I can't put much of my input into this post right now (many things going on), but first off I'd like to say this is very interesting; and great job so far.

For the runes such as gale, they could be balanced. Say a 3% increase to speed instead of 50%.

When you said skill system accessed via runes, I'm not sure if I imagined it right. Would that be something like, in combat (say I'm a mage) I could use a rank 1 skill 9 times and they maybe recharge during combat? This would make the magic system extremely fun, and require a lot of skill competitively.

There would have to be balance for runes such as Rage, Cyclone, etc.. Maybe a cap of one type of those runes on a person at one time. Or maybe gear sets that change your fire rune into a Rage rune while equipped.

The damage of these runes would be tricky. Final Flame could easily be a one-shotter. If this game is going to be started by users here, then I suggest putting a limit to how much damage any skill can do at once. I've played a lot of WoW, and you can keep getting buffs and such, then just go on to one shot other players. Last tier magic skills should probably do no more than 20-25% of anyone's life (preferably buffed). Now that I think about it, certain conditions should probably be met before you can cast it. However, maybe they deserve to lose 25% of their total life if its a huge cast.

There would probably have to be more than 3 rune slots though, due to runes like Wizard and Warrior. Maybe these types of stat boosting runes would have to go somewhere else.

I could also see each equipped rune opening up different trees to spend points into, which would grant access to new skills or passive bonuses.

There should be limits to rune slots depending on stats. Like how the characters closest to warriors in the Suikoden games rarely, if ever, have more than 2 runes slots. This could definitely work with the "open class" system. Where one could make their stats more towards using swords or spears or something, and make themselves great with fire (which could also open up special combos, like special fire spear attacks).

Another quick idea about the competition for true runes in PvP. Guilds could compete, and the leaders could control the runes. Patches would be needed when enough players join to give access to more true runes. World bosses could start with these runes, which would require guild raids to complete.

Guilds could have their own buildings, which could be attacked for control of the rune at any given time. This is just an idea, not having a lot of guild-mates on would make it difficult to keep the rune for more than a day. I think this would be very nice though. If this game ever got big, this would make it so PvP players would have to be in the top PvE guilds.

Another quick suggestion, healing in combat should have an extended casting time; or at least a penalty if you aren't a pure healer. The open class system should be to the point where it can branch off and be completely different while being the same. A priest could be an amazing healer but be controlled by others amazingly easy, or they could be enemy-proof but have their heals suffer a ton. New runes should probably be made up and voted on too. I don't think there is enough to make many characters unique.

Something important to anyone taking on this project, or giving any input; Balance. If there are like 150 different possible combinations of play-styles for class types, don't make choices obviously better than one another. I've also played Runes of Magic, and some choices must be made if you want to be the best of the best. Same went for WoW, certain skills/gear are musts.

...which gives me another idea. If there is a tree system (even if it isn't based of runes), make actual branches. I just realized that WoW doesn't have that many branches in each tree. I'd like to think that 1 branch could contain multiple play-styles. There should probably not be skills that work "too well" with one another from different trees. This makes obvious choices.

It'd be nice to make it somehow illegal to post builds and such online. Personally I think people looking up answers ruins the fun. Make a police force to go around deleting things from the internet. Since this is obviously not considerable, the "goodness" of the class makeup should be determined completely on how a user plays. If this game ever got to the point where there were competitions, it'd be cool to see each player using really weird combinations, especially ones that the other top players couldn't play for crap.
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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby The Director » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:49 pm

Well when I've been thinking about PvP and True Runes, I felt that the runes could be hugely powerful but have serious side effects/problems. For instance each time you use the True Rune, players within the area (size depending upon what spell you cast) are notified that a True Rune has been active.
Other side effects depend upon how much "control" you have over the rune, if you have v. little then the rune can hijack your body for a short time, little you have a high probability for one of its spells to go off randomly. Complete control however would negate all negative effects the rune has on you outside battle, similar to how in the main series, gaining all 108 Stars of Destiny granted you complete control over the rune e.g. Suikoden 2,4 etc.

Of course the type of rune affects what kind of side effects you have. e.g. Soul Eater, people who are on your friend list can get a timer before they die, Rune of Punishment, loss of stats until control or death.

The main idea is that the runes are constantly moving about, and once got are powerful but at a cost.

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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby ninjaluc79 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:11 pm

Which brings a necessary system which enables character death, but also creating a new character which will inherit all equipments of the old character.

However, I find the "TR Detection" system dangerous. Odds are, if a True Rune is detected, people will go hunt the TR Bearer and kill him for control of the TR. So, for a safe measure, when a TR is detected nearby, its bearer's name and exact location is not revealed until, well, somebody sees him.
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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby Mikain Clan King » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:39 pm

I say great ideas to both of you haha.

I absolutely love the fact of the characters dying for good but you retain everything.

A high backfire rate on true runes would be hilarious. They should also have a penalty cast time (if I didn't already say so, again a lot is happening) if you aren't attuned to its element.

Older characters could die of old age, but this should be extremely hard to accomplish; and if done, receive a bonus; based on how much PvP they have done. Kind of like over-breeding if anyone has heard the term (its from, I don't know if it originated in, Rappelz). Basically if you spend a ton of time grinding and questing 10 more super long levels after the point when you can basically evolve, you gain a nice permanent stat bonus.

I prefer a permanent bonus, nothing like exclusive gear that can outdate. Exclusive runes however, sounds nice....which brings up balance issues, and sadly promotes the "rich getting richer". Extremely cool cosmetics that can be put on over top of gear maybe, though I prefer stats.

Another just popped in my head: special custom options while creating the descendant. I'd also say 1 year passing in real life would be like 200 in game. PvPing while not dying for a whole year would be crazy, half a year the same. Haha, vampire race would be screwed unless everyone gets a bonus while dying in combat as well as old age. I'd say if someone lived like 7 months (and died of old age), they should get 10 points to spend in stats; up to 30 total. Death in combat based off kills as well, max should be like 8 (around 100,000 kills accumulated/collaborated , 30,000 personal / self inflicted kills). 10,000 could be around +1.
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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby The Director » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:56 am

Well kind of the point of "TR Detection" was the hunting. That's what happens all the time in the games right? It would encourage that the True Runes keep moving about. And those that have True Runes have either a very good escape system, or alot of people to protect them. I also thought that True Rune holder's could bestow a limited amount of lesser Runes, that way they can create an army for themselves.

For me there would be 3 sources of power. The True Runes, The Government, and The Guilds. Each of these would have something special. The Guilds would have special skills/equipment, The Government would have taxes etc., and the True Runes would have, well True Runes.

To me that would solve the problem of "rich getting richer", but also I would like to create a system where, just having a strong character isn't enough to defend you, organization would be considered paramount in game.

As for aging, yes it makes sense to have it in game, but there's a problem of what happens to your stats when you die/dying. Something bad's got to happen right? I mean dying doesn't have many good qualities so why should it in game? Maybe you keep your stats but lose a skill or equipment.

Because it would be an advantage of True Rune holders, vampires and other ageless people not to die of old age.

Also on armour and so on. Maybe instead of actual armour, which as you say always has a better counter part, maybe just clothes instead, so you can have a distinct appearance. Or alternatively having armour but doesn't effect the appearance.

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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby Mikain Clan King » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:45 am

The Director wrote:As for aging, yes it makes sense to have it in game, but there's a problem of what happens to your stats when you die/dying. Something bad's got to happen right? I mean dying doesn't have many good qualities so why should it in game? Maybe you keep your stats but lose a skill or equipment.


Not so much as dying, but being rewarded for having a good life/career. Only the ones that did exceptionally good would get minor bonuses.


The Director wrote:Also on armour and so on. Maybe instead of actual armour, which as you say always has a better counter part, maybe just clothes instead, so you can have a distinct appearance. Or alternatively having armour but doesn't effect the appearance.



I like this idea. This would make the Suikoden game world seem like an actual world, as opposed to most games where you look nothing like the environment. Stuff like Humphery's armor fits in, while still being actual armor.
"The duel with Genkaku.... It continues here....."
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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby Magangryong » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:15 pm

Imagine an mmorpg that will have many servers,but only 108 stars of destiny could enter.Which means only 108 players per server.

Everyone could start the story,they get a random star,and begin their joyrney.But for the server story to continue,many stars will have to be gathered and the 1 star will start gathering them all.

Some players could say no i dont want to join,halting the story and thus creating another story.Like the original recruitement,you have to do something to convince a star to enter.So,convincing a player to enter is like a side quest XD.

So many possibilities and so many ideas.Shin megami tensei did a good try making a mmorpg, but didnt last long.These games need to get online.I see games i used to play when i was a kid(like grim fandago,age of wonders 2,resident evil 4,eternal darknes on gamecube) and it seems that the gamers that used to play these games, became developers and started making sequels or remastered versions.Could it be possible that we will see suikoden game soon?

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Re: Suikoden MMORPG

Postby Magangryong » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:20 pm

Sorry it seems it took me a while to post.DONT TELL ME I AM LATE.DONT YOU DARE DIE ON ME.


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