Windy and Suikoden 3

In-Depth topics that fail to give reasons for their hypotheses.
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Raww Le Klueze
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Re: Windy and Suikoden 3

Postby Raww Le Klueze » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:04 pm

Luc isn't using the Gate Rune. He calls it a technique for a reason. Just like Sarah summons armies without the Gate Rune, just like Yuber summons the Bone Dragon without the Gate Rune, just like Warlock summons the Gargantuan Tree without the Gate Rune. Runes aren't the only source of magic in the Suikoden-world.

The first person to bear more than one was Windy.

Windy has never born more than one, and she is the ONLY person who knows how to do it. That is a confirmed fact by Konami, she didn't teach anyone else. It's word of God.

There's no way he even knows how to collect True Runes without meeting Windy

He calls it a Harmonian technique for a reason as well. He learned it in Harmonia, True Rune containers is Hikusaak's invention derived from his cloning process. The game outright tells you this with no need for straw-grasping interpretation.

Luc: "So Hikusaak has acquired an interesting method to keep the True Runes in his possession."
Nash: "What is it?"
Luc: "A rune crystal. But this is no ordinary crystal. It is used for sealing the 27 True Runes. And can you guess what's inside?"
Last edited by Raww Le Klueze on Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Windy and Suikoden 3

Postby Vextor » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:21 pm

In fact, the entire plot of Suikoden 3 centers around the fact that Luc and Sasarai are the product of the Harmonian technique to store True Runes in a manageable form-- as clones of Hikusaak. The "Rune Crystals" that Luc and Sarah use to keep the True Runes are in fact clone body parts suspending within an orb, which can be used as a vessel for True Runes. Sarah can even cast spells directly from those Rune Crystals, which shows how she's such an incredible sorceress-- but even then none of these people have two True Runes attached to their bodies at any time.

Also, Luc's mentor is Leknaat-- that's a fact that leaves no room for dispute. Furthermore, Leknaat and Windy simply carry two halves of the Gate Rune, which are identical in power (although Windy's magical prowess is greater than Leknaat's). There is no canon info saying the two halves have different powers, so assuming otherwise is unjustified. You also can not make an assumption based on an assumption-- that goes beyond unjustified, it is simply fake information.

We do have rules against that sort of dissemination of false information here (as well as advertising), so hopefully this discussion ends here unless some sort of solid proof can be presented. Otherwise, this thread will be deleted in a month as per rules. -- A place for information on atheism and secular free thinking.

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Dear 727

Postby Belle » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:57 pm

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Re: Windy and Suikoden 3

Postby Hirathien » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:49 pm

Besides. Luc summoned a golem in Suikoden I, before ever meeting Windy...

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Re: Windy and Suikoden 3

Postby Crowley Reborn » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:36 am

^I was just coming on to post this. Oh stone golem, first real boss of Suikoden... Thank you for that, Luc.
That is... what if Windy got to Luc back in Suikoden I and started teaching him to summon way back then, and Leknaat had no idea where he was getting such crazy information?

In any case, Luc has always been surly. It would be ridiculous to expect him to follow in Leknaat's shoes anyways... it's like the angsty teenager-mother paradigm. The signs of his rebellion were ever present.
I do like the idea though... Windy teaming up with Luc. Come to think of it, maybe Sarah is Windy and Yuber's daughter...

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Re: Windy and Suikoden 3

Postby 727 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:17 pm

While it's conceivable that he mentions Leknaat with your summoning theory, it still points strongly towards Windy having some influence and later becoming his mentor between the events of Suikoden II and III.

Don't forget that Luc showed quite a distaste for Leknaat's orders during the second suikoden game. Furthermore, he joined Harmonia to secretly destroy them, and the continent. Windy would agree to this.

Let's also not forget that Yuber summoned an army of monsters in Suikoden 2 near the end. Did Leknaat teach him that too?

You are failing to read my point, too preoccupied trying to explain true runes. Not saying there aren't flaws in the theory but it is indeed LIKELY.

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Re: Windy and Suikoden 3

Postby Belle » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:57 pm

Don't forget that Luc showed quite a distaste for Leknaat's orders during the second suikoden game. Furthermore, he joined Harmonia to secretly destroy them, and the continent. Windy would agree to this.

What are you trying to say? That Luc's a dick? So what? If just being a dick were enough to attract other dicks, then Windy would have a lot more friends. And so would Luc for that matter.

If you want people to read your points, I suggest you look over your own first.

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Re: Windy and Suikoden 3

Postby Pyriel » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:10 am

Wild assertions built upon weak evidence, weakly correlated is usually one sign of a crackpot theory. Wild theories don't typically meet with a lot of resistance here unless they're based on mistakes, or defended as TRUTH against all objections. I get the impression that when you back down to "likely", you mean the "not quite 100%, but so many sigmas that it's not worth treating it as anything but a certainty" kind of likely.

You built this up essentially from one line, because you took an English Literature course and heard the term "foreshadowing". In order for it to be foreshadowing, it has to bloody well foreshadow something. I'd give your theory more credit if Windy had turned up in the 108 Stars ending instead of Leknaat. Presently, you seem to be of the opinion that Konami used a literary presage for an exposition they never got around writing, and it's so well hidden that it's never come up in interviews, fan publications, etc.

I wonder what phrasing he uses in the Japanese version anyway. If you're going to attempt exegesis based on a few words, you should really look to the original source for guidance. For all you know, the Japanese text uses a word that means something more like "surrogate mother and role-model", and English just doesn't capture that meaning efficiently.

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Re: I found proof that Windy is related to Suikoden III

Postby freshmetal » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:17 pm

727 wrote:It doesn't matter how many lines it is, it's written crystal clear. That is what writers call foreshadowing. There's no other way to interpret that than for it to be Windy. It's a very subtle way to put it out there without saying it in blunt words, foreshadowing.

1-Luc uses the same power as Windy, the only person capable of creating an army of illusions.
2-Yuber has always served Windy
3-He mentions a mentor teaching him a power and Leknaat never created monsters.
4-Windy is the evil half of the Gate Rune so why wouldn't he change mentors when he changed?
5-Luc goes inside and betrays Harmonia; Windy has a passion to destroy Harmonia.

All of this evidence suggests by WHAT THEY SAY in the actual game that Windy is in fact the one who made Luc change the way he sees.

Play my game to get a better understanding. it's available on the game's facebook page.

-link deleted, putting this up multiple times is akin to advertising - Op

Windy was never Luc's mentor. He was raised and trained by Leknaat. As for your bullet points...

1. Windy didn't have the power to create illusions, That's Sarah's unique power. The power to summon monster with the Gate Rune/Blue Gate Rune is something Windy and Leknaat could both do.

2. Yuber didn't ALWAYS serve Windy. It seems that after the events of S1, Yuber began serving the Silverberg family because in S2, his was recruited to the Highland army by Leon Silverberg, and then Albert Silverberg in S3. He has no connection to Luc at all.

3. We never saw Leknaat conjure up monsters, but as a bearer of part of the Gate Rune, it's something that she could have easily done, and there's no reason to think that she didn't show Luc that power in the 30 years that he was her apprentice.

4. Windy's half of the rune wasn't "evil". Windy herself wasn't really evil either. She was seeking power to exact revenge on Harmonia for the destruction of her village. Ironically, in that quest for power, she was guilty of committing the same crimes as Harmonia. If I recall correctly, Leknaat's abduction of Luc from Harmonia was motivated by revenge against Harmonia as well. I wouldn't call Luc "evil" either. He simply didn't want to be a slave to fate and chose to fight his destiny.

5. Luc's betrayal of Harmonia wasn't personally motivated, and it wasn't his ultimate goal. He only used his position in Harmonia to to draw out the hidden elemental True Runes to complete his plan to destroy his own rune.
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