Gay Characters

Ask questions about the personality and backstory of the multitude of characters in the Suikoden series.
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Rody
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Rody » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:46 am

RangerDeon wrote:I think it would be great if a game would include a gay character and he not be the comedic relief with an annoying crush on the main character. It seems that some game series creators like to stick with the stereotypes and when implementing character personalities they choose the most negative aspects of that certain group.

It'll be nice to see a character in a popular game series (Suikoden, Final Fantasy. . etc) where there is an openly gay man who doesn't promote every negative stereotype provided for homosexual men. It'll be nice to see that. It'll be extremely nice to see that as a main character a not someone who just supplies one-liners. But, of course that would never happen considering the target demographic for these games.


I agree with this statement. In fact, I was just ranting about it a few weeks ago; not games but all media in general. We were watching a movie and there were all these stupid gay jokes and everybody thought it was hilarious. It was ticking me off. So I started on a spiel. Why can't there be a serious, masculine man who prefers the male sex? As a main character, even? They have all these shows out there with serious lesbian women, and barely anybody throws a tizzy, but everybody's too afraid to go out and make a serious gay role in anything! Why does it all have to be funny? Ugh. I'm tired of this whole generalization, too. A gay man can be every bit as masculine as the next man, yet people get huffy if you say somebody like Viktor or Ike (from Fire Emblem) could possibly be gay, as if it's an insult! RAWR.

As for not getting an audience; I honestly don't think they have much to lose. Just a bunch of ignorant redneck hicks who probably pirate everything anyway.
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Matthijs
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Matthijs » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:05 am

even though Suikoden is a fantasy (yeye RPG -_-) game, it has some realistic points, in ~450 there simply WERE no gays!

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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Oppenheimer » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:55 am

There wasn't a mindset of a gay community perhaps, but I don't think the Greek and Roman empire would agree with you that there was never same sex relationships going on.

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Blutiger Engel
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Blutiger Engel » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:11 pm

Weren't male partnerships encouraged at that time? I thought men were expected to do things with each other before marriage for practice and such, and Spartan men were expected to be together despite being married because it strengthened their bond in battle. Unfortunately, the movie "300" chose to leave that part out.

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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Oppenheimer » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:23 pm

Well, it's getting a bit off topic to go on about it as this is about Suikoden characters. Plus it's super complicated. Here's a few links for more info if you want:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_ ... ent_Greece
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual ... cient_Rome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual ... ent_Greece

Anyway, as for on topic, if they are trying to portray an ancient human civilization there's no reason to leave out some type of homosexuality in Suikoden.

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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Matthijs » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:35 pm

Also, don't forget that Suikoden is created by Japanees (or Chineese).

In those countrys (especially Japan) gays and lesbians are some sort of outlaws. Having gays in Suikoden would even lower their sale's. Gay's in Suikoden = MADNESS! (though Tuta looks like a dragqueen)

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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Oppenheimer » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:05 pm

Matthijs please stop posting things that you know nothing about. Homosexuality is perfectly legal in Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Japan

Edit: And sales for Dragon Age didn't go down due to the homosexual scenes in it.

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Re: Gay Characters

Postby EternalOnslaught » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:27 pm

You could say that some characters may have acted the part and looked the part. But I don't believe none officially claim that they were gay in the series. I think it would be beneficial to have characters who are homosexual, because the world is not black and white. If anything, I would expect to see homosexual characters in games created by Japanese companies, it seems to be not a big taboo as it is in the United States.
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RangerDeon
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby RangerDeon » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:40 pm

Matthijs wrote:even though Suikoden is a fantasy (yeye RPG -_-) game, it has some realistic points, in ~450 there simply WERE no gays!


That is extremely incorrect, mate.

Homosexuals have always existed. I'm fairly certain it wasn't invented by some dude who wanted to rebel against the churches. It was always there, just not as talked about as it is now.

There was a period where it didn't matter, and then people started believing in things (clearly not an accurate adaptation of what actually happened) and suddenly it was punishable by death! But it did exist. It has always existed.

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eldrasidar
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby eldrasidar » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:36 pm

so yes, gays and lesbians have essentially been around for as long as human history records. the main reason why you hear more about them today is because our social systems have become increasingly complicated, whilst the language used to describe them have not. the foundations of neither gay relationships , nor heterosexual relationships have drastically changed. both types of relationships are of great importance to the people involved. however at this point in time, we are in the process of figuring out a way to have the law recognize the equivalent value of both types of relationships. unfortunately the vocabulary has not evolved yet to make dialogue entirely fruitful.(we can't for example agree on the definition of marriage, or even a family for that matter). at the same time we have to struggle with the fears and stereotypes that have arisen. bisexuals, transgenders, crossdressers etc. only further complicate the issue. speculating on the sexual orientation of suikoden characters is a fruitless endeavor. unless somebody specifically declares themselves to be of a particular orientation, any character traits they may have are completely useless in determining their preference, so you might as well stop speculating otherwise you'll be debating endlessly on this. the 108 stars come together as a pretty big close knit group, so you can read into almost all relationships. there's only a handful of stars of destiny who are actually revealed to be married(like Gilbert or Lepant) or who have a clear preference(like Ace or Sheena), so beyond those, anything goes as far as the game is concerned.

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Lemmy Claypool
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Lemmy Claypool » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:35 pm

Matthijs wrote:Also, don't forget that Suikoden is created by Japanees (or Chineese).

In those countrys (especially Japan) gays and lesbians are some sort of outlaws. Having gays in Suikoden would even lower their sale's. Gay's in Suikoden = MADNESS! (though Tuta looks like a dragqueen)

If anything I'd have said Japan was more liberal than most Western countries when it comes to things like sexuality.

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Auragaea
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Auragaea » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:09 pm

Contrary to the majority of you guys, I don't believe that Suikoden, or any media in general, should include gay characters just for the sake of being gay. They should make a character's sexual orientation be an important part of the character, and serious at that too, yet not too overbearing that the only reason why you remember that character is because of their sexuality. Examples of characters that I dislike due to this are Lelei, from Suikoden 5, and Kanji, from Persona 4. To this day, I don't think I've ever played a game where gay characters are actually respectable, and with how Japan portrays gay characters, I doubt I'll ever see such characters in any Japanese media.
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Oppenheimer » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:06 pm

It's not Japanese media but Leliana from Dragon Age is bi and she's a very respectable character. Zevran is also bi but he's thoroughly amoral. Also those particular elements of their character do not consume their character. Zevran is a slut so sex does come up a lot with him, but Leliana doesn't wear her sexuality on her sleeve. I think you may approve of the way they handled her.

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Re: Gay Characters

Postby RangerDeon » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:57 pm

Ha! I don't think I'd mind the slutty Elf-dude.

I mean, look at Kyle (Suikoden V) and Sheena (Suikoden I & II) they were major skirt chasers; if Suikoden held the same ratings I think they'd probably include them getting it ooon with some woman. So I don't see a reason why they shouldn't include a homosexual with the same attitude. Now, of course I would hate it is that's all they used gay characters for.

I think the problem is that games usually use gay characters for just one role. We are, as a people, different. . no matter your gender or sexuality. And we all come with different personalities.

"I wasn't getting rid of you. I want you to do whatever you want to do with me. I know that sounded dirty, and dirty things count, but I didn't mean the dirty things. You and me can hang whenever, wherever."
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Sagiri
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Re: Gay Characters

Postby Sagiri » Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:58 pm

And somehow, ppl are disrespected for it. Sad. I have a friend who's gay. There's honestly nothing wrong with it.

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