Lazlo's mastery of the Rune of Punishment

[suiko2fan2]

Ok so anyone who has played Suikoden IV, knows the Rune of Punishment left much to desired as a true rune when it came to using it in battle as compared to other true runes in previous games. Lets be real the final attack was nothing more that a "Glorified" Shining Wind Spell (cyclone rune), but a least the Shining wind healed you to, Everlasting Mercy won't even do that. Now the whole taking dmg thing when using the rune is fine i get that it was part of the rune's curse, but it even after the ROP changes states from atonement to forgiveness, it still doesnt seem to all that great in battle, sure in the cut scenes its all uber and stuff, but other than that it doesnt seem all that stronger than the higher level elemental runes in battle.

Now i am not trying to go bashing the rune that much, given that ROP sucks your life away when you use it, it makes sense that you wouldn't want to use a lot of its power unless you really were eager to die. However, as it has change states, I can't help think that as Lazlo continues to bear the rune and master it that it's attacks my grow stronger and healing powers better. I say this due to the fact i just played 4 and tactics back-to-back, and just seeing how much better the ROP was in tactics, by far the strongest thing in the game. Now obviously the structure of tactics gameplay is completely different than that of the rest of the series given the kind of game that it is, but with that said, little things like Everlasting Mercy now can heal you and everyone else around you, and that Double Edged Sword seems to a little bit more stronger than it was in 4, proportionately speaking of course.

Again its hard to compare given the difference in the games' battle systems, but i think that Konami was trying to make the Rune somewhat stronger as Lazlo has come to handle it better given its new forgiveness nature. It would be interesting to see if after 150 years of mastery, if Lazlo is now able to use the Rune of Punishment to its greatest and fullest potential.

[Aculias]

Each True rune did not have the ultimate everlasting most powerful Lv 4 spell in any of the 5 games. They all had their own unique spells.

Each True Rune was significant in their own way. I am not talking about using the rune vs enemies, I mean how the rune can be used.

If you compare the rune to say the Soul Eater, It is not less powerful in comparison. it's different.

[Icegryphon]

Naw, I agree, the Rune of Punishment was crap. Less than halfway through the game, the first two were pretty much worthless as you could do so much more damage just by attacking. The last one didn't even heal Lazlo so you couldn't use it as a heal because you still needed to heal him, yet it didnt' do all that much damage to the boss (who else are you going to use a level 4 spell on?) so it wasn't a good damage spell, so it was crap. And the third spell was only good on hard normal enemies and who cares about them? Just kill them usually.

ROP was worst true rune by far.

[Kasumi14]

But ROP was super deadly in Tactics, though. For me the major handicap for ROP in S4 is because of the self-damage stuff, but it was super useful in the beginning and also during the training with Reinhold. I think it's pretty good though, just like Soul Eater...

[Vextor]

Yeah, the Rune of Punsihment was extremely deadly in Tactics. Perhaps it's due to mastery of the rune or something, but you could easilly kill the last boss in Tactics using the ROP.

[Icegryphon]

Okay fine, it was good in tactics but it was absolutely worthless in IV past the level 20 mark.

[Runemaster]

Well my team's already 30ish and it's still useful for me!

Hey, a lvl 1 300 damage sure is a great benefit! The self-inflicted damage isn't bad either. But that's it. I use Double Edged Sword sometimes and NEVER used Voice of Death. Haven't acquired Everlasting Mercy yet but I also seldom use it on my past playthroughs.

[Kranach]

one of Suikoden IV's downside was the ROP's pathetic spells and the Soul Eater's diminished strength. they downgraded soul eater so much!!! ted is a powerful mage, he can basically kill everyone without receiving any damage. what is the point of soul eater healing ted when it downgrades it's attacking power. they were trying to save ROP's image by not making it look so pathetic compared to soul eater? but they could have just made ROP a lot stronger than sacrificing Soul Eater's hell, and what is the point of calling it finger of death if it can't instant kill the enemy anymore? ok back to ROP it was noticeable that the ROP was a lot stronger in Rhapsodia, but there is really no comparison since Rhapsodia uses a different battle system. a good example is "Can you really compare Cloud from FFVII to the Cloud in FF Tactics?". I don't think the ROP got stronger, it was just the battle system that made it look better. How can Lazlo master ROP when all he does is stay in the desserted island away from civilization?

[Icegryphon]

The Soul eater downgraded? What're you talking about? All they did was take the two instant death spells that Tir had and turned them into damage spells that healed Ted. How is that a downgrade? Seems an upgrade to me since they actually work on bosses.

And all you need for groups is the second level spell which decimates everything, and for bosses judgment which rofflepowns everything. Ted + soul eater = SIV easymode.

[Kranach]

but hell was the spell that made soul eater very powerful in Suikoden I. if you didn't level up that much having the ability to instant kill all the enemy is a big help. hades was 300 dmg to all and heals ted for a low amount. sure now you can damage bosses with finger of death and hades, but wasn't that the purpose of black shadow and judgement. black shadow in suikoden II had 500 dmg, now we can apply the same question about tir's mastery of the soul eater cause black shadow in suikoden I had 300 dmg but in II had 500 dmg. ted had soul eater for at least 130+ years, so if the fog ship guide had soul eater does that affects ted's mastery over it? he had all 4 spells.

[StalkerPizza]

Double Edged Sword was my savior in tactics...I loved that spell so much

[suiko2fan2]

Double Edged Sword was my savior in tactics...I loved that spell so much

Agreed in tactics, Double Edged Sword was my favorite attack and saved butt on plenty of occasions, especially in the Obel Dungeon levels

[Antimatzist]

Double Edged Sword was my savior in tactics...I loved that spell so much

Agreed in tactics, Double Edged Sword was my favorite attack and saved butt on plenty of occasions, especially in the Obel Dungeon levels

But mostly because it is no double edged sword anymore.. but what a stupid name would be "normally edged sword" ?

[gildedtalon]

Double Edged Sword was my savior in tactics...I loved that spell so much

Agreed in tactics, Double Edged Sword was my favorite attack and saved butt on plenty of occasions, especially in the Obel Dungeon levels

Lame, Lazlo is way overpowered in Tactics even without his rune

[suiko2fan2]

Double Edged Sword was my savior in tactics...I loved that spell so much

Agreed in tactics, Double Edged Sword was my favorite attack and saved butt on plenty of occasions, especially in the Obel Dungeon levels

Lame, Lazlo is way overpowered in Tactics even without his rune

Thats the point, True Rune Barriers are suppose to get more powerful with time. Their ageless after all. Look at difference between McDohl in 1 verses 2, he was grossly overpowered in magic and sword in the second as compared the others. Lalzo is no different with that respect. or look at the series other rune bearers Luc, Ted, Zerse, their magics were overpowered gamebreakers. There are others characters who typify was i am saying, but no need for overkill to make my point about 'overkill'. In the broader prism of the suikoden series having a returning character, particular one with a true rune, more uber than before is not surprising, if anything it should be expected story wise.