i created a similarly titled topic regarding fitting last bosses so if you want to check that out here's the link: http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewt ... 12&t=10166
anyway, i'd like to get into my opinions of how fitting the leaders of suikoden I-V are and how deserving they are of their true runes. i won't regard their personalities at all (with the exception of riou) because of silent protaganism (which i feel shouldn't have been used in suikoden at all) so we can all assume these guys have great charisma. i will come up with my conclusions based on what we know about a character's history and anything hinted within a game regarding a history. do forgive me if you don't agree with my opinions especially since i feel that i'm basing them mainly on a character's situation and my attention to details.
S1: tir was great because of being the son of the emperor's most trusted general (i believe that was stated in the manual). for him to start and end his story at the place of his origin is pretty powerful enough for him to be a fitting leader. soul eater coming from his best friend's last wish (especially since he trusted him so well) actually made me feel for tir. the timing is practically perfect for this. what i also like is that if barbarossa had a son and he would've been the leader, that woulda made the game a little too obvious seeming to it was a smart approach by konami to use a different relation to the emperor that's not at least some random citizen.
S2: riou is kind of a different case with me. sure, he was raised by genkaku but that just doesn't do it for me. as much as he wanted peace in the land, he wanted nothing more than to live his life w/ nanami and jowy. the strong but cheesy presentation of friendship really made me feel he wasn't that fitting to be a leader but at the same time he is rather fitting considering we compare the rune's histories. riou's shield defending against jowy's sword shows a definite distinction in character and how to lead ideas differently. the only thing i hate is how unepic these 2 receive their runes. you get a nice scene about riou's friendship regarding jowy but really now, the runes were crappily guarded in stupid toto village and they were lucky enough that the highlanders that destroyed toto didn't explore that cave before riou and jowy did. it felt like they were at the ridiculously right place at a ridiculously lucky time.
S3: i'll take a look at all different leaders. thomas is the head of budehuc castle, which is the base of operation for the fire bringer's army. since we have a focus on a different leader,(whoever you chose as flame champion) he's fitting with his position. hugo being the son of karayan chief lucia is OK. being her son does give him credibility and respect. in opposition to a grasslander, we have the captain of the zexen knights chris who is the daughter of the previous true water rune. then we have geddoe, leader of a mercernary unit currently under harmonia, who has a connection to the previous flame champ and bears a true rune himself. luc is the mind behind the war and has his reasons for leading yuber, sarah, and albert. as simple as these stories may sound to some, i think this presented the 2nd-to-most fitting leaders for a suikoden game. my 1st most fitting will be part 5 which i'll get to. regarding canon, i think hugo would make the most sensible and fitting flame champ especially since chris is linked to true water and geddoe all ready has true lightning. he has the most reason to be a leading figure for the area S3 is in considering how enormous grasslands is and the fact that he's a grasslander himself.
S4: lazlo i feel is the least fitting and probably undeserving to be a leader. his exile is bad enough and it really feels like the only reason people want to help his cause is the mere fact that he bears a true rune. the only point in which i thought he was fitting at all is when we get the subtle hint from lino that lazlo is his son and that's right before the final war battle. throughout most of the game, i felt that lazlo was just some random street rat who was lucky enough to be the next punishment rune bearer which is why i feel he's so completely bland.
S5: definitely the most fitting and the first time we have a leader explicitly stated as royalty. prince of a queendom so we know that no matter what, he can never fully be the leader of falena. i find that pretty unique. regarding what we see in the game, you actually feel for him more as you see lym's status being abused and his parents' deaths in a lovely little scene. he's the big brother of the kidnapped little sister that's trying to restore order in his homeland and no one else could've done it better. regarding when he gets the dawn rune, that was perfect timing. right place, right situation, right time. to expose salum barows for the dirtbag he is and gain the dawn rune at the same time = wow.
i feel like i may have dragged on some opinions but whatevz. i leave this topic up for debate. i'd like to hear your opinions.
fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
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lechaflan
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Quing
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Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
Honestly, I don't think that ancestry is a very good indication of one's leadership abilities whatsoever. Now, one's background I can see. Obviously Tir had a better education than, say, Hugo, due to the fact that he's high in the social aristocracy of one of the biggest and most advanced nations in the world, and that certainly gives him an edge.
Anyway, I suppose I'll go ahead and give my views on each of the characters and their leadership qualifications.
Tir- A wonderful leader. Not only is he well educated, but he's from a military family and is clearly at least minimally trained in military leadership. As you said, he also has Ted's confidence in his moral purity, which is a reasonably high recommendation from someone who's 300 years old. He is clearly suited to be the leader.
Riou- I think that the main reason that people follow Riou is that he's the adopted son of Genkaku, who is well known in the City States of Jowston for being a military hero. As far as background goes, he's pretty good. Now, he does lack experience, but he still has more experience as a soldier than Tir does at the beginning of Suikoden. He also has more experience in Highland than anyone else, which, considering his role as the person who unites Jowston and Highland, makes him very qualified to lead: better, indeed, than anyone from Jowston would have been. I think that Riou has great credentials.
Thomas- I hate to say it, but Thomas is precisely suited to his job. Much though I'd like to think that he had it in him to run the armies, I have to admit that really what he's best at is keeping the armies from killing each other. And while he has no experience at economics, his skill at making people feel welcome works well toward the goal of getting Budehuc castle's economy to be stable again.
Hugo- Hugo isn't particularly qualified to lead the armies. Being Lucia's son, he has been around people with responsibilities all his life and so some leadership skills must have rubbed off. However, he isn't particularly experienced in combat or in leadership himself, he's hot headed, and he acts like a teenager. His judgment is very flawed, and while I think that with a few years experience, he'd be fine to lead the Karaya clan, I don't think that he's qualified to lead the armies.
Chris- Chris is much more qualified to be a leader than Hugo is. She leads a group of soldiers regularly, has had much experience dealing with bureaucracies, and is the daughter of one of the great generals of Zexen's history. As far as experience goes, she's not a bad choice for a leader.
Geddoe- But of course, no one has the experience to trump Geddoe. Geddoe has not only had more military experience than any other two main characters put together, but he also has more experience with his rune. Geddoe is clever, intimidating, and very well-connected. However, I don't think that he's qualified to be a leader. He's very anti-social, and that doesn't work well for being the leader of large numbers of people. On the other hand, he's marvelous as a supporting general.
Luc- Luc is a fine leader for what he's doing. That is to say that Luc is the most qualified person around to infiltrate Harmonia's social system with the end result of destroying a true rune. The fact that he's been Leknaat's apprentice means that he of all people would know how to do that. Furthermore, the fact that he's a clone made by Harmonia for the express purpose of wielding the True Wind Rune means that there is no one more qualified to show up and immediately get a spot in the government. However everything that Luc is doing is dependent on the people's view of him as a part of the Harmonian government and the particular skills of those he surrounds himself with. In any other situation, Luc would be the worst leader possible.
Lazlo- Contrary to your beliefs, I think that Lazlo is quite qualified. Remember first, that Lazlo has had extensive military (particularly naval) training. Second, he is quite skilled at military leadership (or else Glen would not have had the confidence in him that he does). And third, he is in a position of not being associated with any particular nation. The fact that he's neutral, in a sense, means that he is more qualified to unite the islands than anyone else. Now he does ally himself with Obel early on, and that hurts the neutrality aspect, but aside from that he's good. And the fact that Lazlo is Lino's son is meaningless from a leadership standpoint. No one cares. It had no influence on his background, and since no one knows it, it has no influence on his political standing either.
Freyjadour- I agree that Freyjadour is supremely qualified for the position he holds. Because he is a member of the royal family who is not in line for the throne, he is one of the few people who can legitimately make his goal the restoration of the royal family. His love for his sister is well-known, and the fact that he's fighting to overthrow her husband means that he obviously thinks that it's what Lymsleia wants. Furthermore, Freyjadour has had experience traveling around the nation and so he knows the people and they know him. The fact that he's also the prince of one of the richest and most powerful countries in the world also means that he is well-educated, which helps. And furthermore, his father was a general and his mother was a queen. He knows both the military and politics.
So that's my take.
Anyway, I suppose I'll go ahead and give my views on each of the characters and their leadership qualifications.
Tir- A wonderful leader. Not only is he well educated, but he's from a military family and is clearly at least minimally trained in military leadership. As you said, he also has Ted's confidence in his moral purity, which is a reasonably high recommendation from someone who's 300 years old. He is clearly suited to be the leader.
Riou- I think that the main reason that people follow Riou is that he's the adopted son of Genkaku, who is well known in the City States of Jowston for being a military hero. As far as background goes, he's pretty good. Now, he does lack experience, but he still has more experience as a soldier than Tir does at the beginning of Suikoden. He also has more experience in Highland than anyone else, which, considering his role as the person who unites Jowston and Highland, makes him very qualified to lead: better, indeed, than anyone from Jowston would have been. I think that Riou has great credentials.
Thomas- I hate to say it, but Thomas is precisely suited to his job. Much though I'd like to think that he had it in him to run the armies, I have to admit that really what he's best at is keeping the armies from killing each other. And while he has no experience at economics, his skill at making people feel welcome works well toward the goal of getting Budehuc castle's economy to be stable again.
Hugo- Hugo isn't particularly qualified to lead the armies. Being Lucia's son, he has been around people with responsibilities all his life and so some leadership skills must have rubbed off. However, he isn't particularly experienced in combat or in leadership himself, he's hot headed, and he acts like a teenager. His judgment is very flawed, and while I think that with a few years experience, he'd be fine to lead the Karaya clan, I don't think that he's qualified to lead the armies.
Chris- Chris is much more qualified to be a leader than Hugo is. She leads a group of soldiers regularly, has had much experience dealing with bureaucracies, and is the daughter of one of the great generals of Zexen's history. As far as experience goes, she's not a bad choice for a leader.
Geddoe- But of course, no one has the experience to trump Geddoe. Geddoe has not only had more military experience than any other two main characters put together, but he also has more experience with his rune. Geddoe is clever, intimidating, and very well-connected. However, I don't think that he's qualified to be a leader. He's very anti-social, and that doesn't work well for being the leader of large numbers of people. On the other hand, he's marvelous as a supporting general.
Luc- Luc is a fine leader for what he's doing. That is to say that Luc is the most qualified person around to infiltrate Harmonia's social system with the end result of destroying a true rune. The fact that he's been Leknaat's apprentice means that he of all people would know how to do that. Furthermore, the fact that he's a clone made by Harmonia for the express purpose of wielding the True Wind Rune means that there is no one more qualified to show up and immediately get a spot in the government. However everything that Luc is doing is dependent on the people's view of him as a part of the Harmonian government and the particular skills of those he surrounds himself with. In any other situation, Luc would be the worst leader possible.
Lazlo- Contrary to your beliefs, I think that Lazlo is quite qualified. Remember first, that Lazlo has had extensive military (particularly naval) training. Second, he is quite skilled at military leadership (or else Glen would not have had the confidence in him that he does). And third, he is in a position of not being associated with any particular nation. The fact that he's neutral, in a sense, means that he is more qualified to unite the islands than anyone else. Now he does ally himself with Obel early on, and that hurts the neutrality aspect, but aside from that he's good. And the fact that Lazlo is Lino's son is meaningless from a leadership standpoint. No one cares. It had no influence on his background, and since no one knows it, it has no influence on his political standing either.
Freyjadour- I agree that Freyjadour is supremely qualified for the position he holds. Because he is a member of the royal family who is not in line for the throne, he is one of the few people who can legitimately make his goal the restoration of the royal family. His love for his sister is well-known, and the fact that he's fighting to overthrow her husband means that he obviously thinks that it's what Lymsleia wants. Furthermore, Freyjadour has had experience traveling around the nation and so he knows the people and they know him. The fact that he's also the prince of one of the richest and most powerful countries in the world also means that he is well-educated, which helps. And furthermore, his father was a general and his mother was a queen. He knows both the military and politics.
So that's my take.
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lechaflan
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Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
quing, i love the way you think and express your ideas. you actually looked at leadership the exact way i was should've looked at it especially since i took a leadership class last semester. the one thing i guess i failed to include in my leadership analysis is the background aspect especially when you mention terms like aristocracy and education. i really liked your description of hugo and geddoe. i'm somewhat reconsidering some of my thoughts especially that of lazlo and riou.
i just wanted to add that at the same time i'll still stand by some my words because while i was writing my first post, the main thing i had on my mind is how the games themselves present each leader in a sort of fairytale kind of sense which is why i place some importance in lazlo being lino's son (damn, not sure if you can understand my vague thoughts). it feels like my attention to detail is different from yours as i feel like i analyze the games in an artistic sense so i guess you can say i'm an artistic critic. by fitting leaders, i didn't question their leadership qualifications mainly due to my assumption that silent protaganism assumes these leaders have that great charisma potential (like what you said about thomas). so with that said, i made my first post based on what we see/read from the games themselves surrounding these leaders and what artistically displayed qualities surrounding them make them 'fitting' tp be leaders.
eh, i know i'm not making sense but i'm just not too good with expressing my artistic side. anyway, even though i'm sticking to my words, i still agree with a lot of what you say so in essence, if i combine my opinions with yours, i'd probably give these leaders different ratings due to updated views.
i just wanted to add that at the same time i'll still stand by some my words because while i was writing my first post, the main thing i had on my mind is how the games themselves present each leader in a sort of fairytale kind of sense which is why i place some importance in lazlo being lino's son (damn, not sure if you can understand my vague thoughts). it feels like my attention to detail is different from yours as i feel like i analyze the games in an artistic sense so i guess you can say i'm an artistic critic. by fitting leaders, i didn't question their leadership qualifications mainly due to my assumption that silent protaganism assumes these leaders have that great charisma potential (like what you said about thomas). so with that said, i made my first post based on what we see/read from the games themselves surrounding these leaders and what artistically displayed qualities surrounding them make them 'fitting' tp be leaders.
eh, i know i'm not making sense but i'm just not too good with expressing my artistic side. anyway, even though i'm sticking to my words, i still agree with a lot of what you say so in essence, if i combine my opinions with yours, i'd probably give these leaders different ratings due to updated views.
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Mio
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Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
there is something queer about Quing's and lechaflan's analysis that i just can't put my finger on...
i don't think i measure fitting leaders by their lineage, academic/military background, exquisite fates in true runes, or on how amazing their adventure turned out to be
i believe a 'leader' emerges the moment people starts to believe in a person
"power is not something we acquire, it is something given to us by those who believe we have it" -Lionel Luthor
having said that, i believe i measure leaders on how well they respond to people's trust
have they done something great for the people and were they selfless?
The Prince, Chris, Hugo, and Tir all fought to save their own lands
each have their own different reason for fighting as they all have just lost their love ones
but in the end, it was for their fellow Falenans, Zexens, and Karayans
in some perspective, you may see this as saving their own skin, but nonetheless a great feat
now remain the two orphans:
Lazlo also fought for the people and land that he was raised on
however his tendency to risk his own life by using the RoP is a big letdown
i mean, people put faith in your leadership
what good are these if your dead
i saved Riou for last cus i think he was the most fitting leader of all
Riou was well trained to protect Highland from the City-State no doubt
but somehow ended up leading an army forged in enemy territory
Riou don't know these people from City-State, lest care for them,
heck he was even taught to slaughter these people if need be
and this is what seperated Riou from the rest
it didn't matter which side you were on
he saw how futile war was, the same way Han and Genkaku saw it
this epiphany predominant in Riou compared to the others, made him my best fitting leader
while the others were just eliminating negatives in their own happy land
Riou fought for peace, for people he barely knew
every leader mentioned fought selflessly for the people
made terrible sacrifices along the way
but the difference for Riou was, he was fighting for the sole purpose of peace for both sides
P.S. Riou did not wanted to just elope with Nanami and Jowy, if he did, he should've accepted numerous offers before by Jowy (Greenhill) and Nanami (Tinto) to stop fighting and just live a normal life. Instead he decided to fight and finish the war, at least according to canon
i don't think i measure fitting leaders by their lineage, academic/military background, exquisite fates in true runes, or on how amazing their adventure turned out to be
i believe a 'leader' emerges the moment people starts to believe in a person
"power is not something we acquire, it is something given to us by those who believe we have it" -Lionel Luthor
having said that, i believe i measure leaders on how well they respond to people's trust
have they done something great for the people and were they selfless?
The Prince, Chris, Hugo, and Tir all fought to save their own lands
each have their own different reason for fighting as they all have just lost their love ones
but in the end, it was for their fellow Falenans, Zexens, and Karayans
in some perspective, you may see this as saving their own skin, but nonetheless a great feat
now remain the two orphans:
Lazlo also fought for the people and land that he was raised on
however his tendency to risk his own life by using the RoP is a big letdown
i mean, people put faith in your leadership
what good are these if your dead
i saved Riou for last cus i think he was the most fitting leader of all
Riou was well trained to protect Highland from the City-State no doubt
but somehow ended up leading an army forged in enemy territory
Riou don't know these people from City-State, lest care for them,
heck he was even taught to slaughter these people if need be
and this is what seperated Riou from the rest
it didn't matter which side you were on
he saw how futile war was, the same way Han and Genkaku saw it
this epiphany predominant in Riou compared to the others, made him my best fitting leader
while the others were just eliminating negatives in their own happy land
Riou fought for peace, for people he barely knew
every leader mentioned fought selflessly for the people
made terrible sacrifices along the way
but the difference for Riou was, he was fighting for the sole purpose of peace for both sides
P.S. Riou did not wanted to just elope with Nanami and Jowy, if he did, he should've accepted numerous offers before by Jowy (Greenhill) and Nanami (Tinto) to stop fighting and just live a normal life. Instead he decided to fight and finish the war, at least according to canon
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Quing
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Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
First off, lechaflan, I am flattered that you seem to think so highly of my analysis. And I recognize that from a story telling perspective, one's views may be a little different from my rather more political perspective.
Second, Mio. While I agree that the ultimate test of leadership is how good a job one does in leading, the purpose of this thread (as I interpreted it) was to examine the issue of who was the most worthy to be the leader at the beginning of the game. While certainly an unknown with a completely insignificant background may wind up being good at leading, it wouldn't make sense for them to be the one selected as a leader by the army. Even if someone has enormous leadership talents, if no one knows about those talents, then one is not going to become the head of the army. Of course, all the Suikoden main characters turned out to be good leaders (or at least successful ones), but some of them were simply better prepared for their job than others.
Second, Mio. While I agree that the ultimate test of leadership is how good a job one does in leading, the purpose of this thread (as I interpreted it) was to examine the issue of who was the most worthy to be the leader at the beginning of the game. While certainly an unknown with a completely insignificant background may wind up being good at leading, it wouldn't make sense for them to be the one selected as a leader by the army. Even if someone has enormous leadership talents, if no one knows about those talents, then one is not going to become the head of the army. Of course, all the Suikoden main characters turned out to be good leaders (or at least successful ones), but some of them were simply better prepared for their job than others.
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Mio
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Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
oh crap, this thread may actually mean like that
although one would say differently after reading lechaflan's first answers
well, if this thread is as Quing suggested, then i wash my hand of everything
i don't think it's worth my while to assume such leadership skills based on academic/military/family backgrounds
my country's been burned countless times by such assumptions
(just in case, 'burned' is an expression, again, just in case)
although one would say differently after reading lechaflan's first answers
well, if this thread is as Quing suggested, then i wash my hand of everything
i don't think it's worth my while to assume such leadership skills based on academic/military/family backgrounds
my country's been burned countless times by such assumptions
(just in case, 'burned' is an expression, again, just in case)
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Antimatzist
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Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
I don't think any of them is suited as a leader if you look at them as military leaders. While most of them had some basic military training, and even though all of them have a lot of charisma, they really lack of real leadership experience.
That's why I like S II a bit better than the Rest, beacuse in II, you actually lose battles in the beginning because you're inexperienced (Ok, it's partly Apple's fault, but nevermind.)
That's why I like S II a bit better than the Rest, beacuse in II, you actually lose battles in the beginning because you're inexperienced (Ok, it's partly Apple's fault, but nevermind.)
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Genoh
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Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
Tir leading the liberation army seemed kind of off to me. An ex-Imperial who happens to meet Odessa Silverberg perhaps months before her untimely death? It seemed she picked him only because he had eyes she could trust. It seems like he only ended up on their side because he was kicked out of the Empire.
Riou made sense. Riou was the adopted grandson of Genkaku- hero of the City State. He also had on his hand the Bright Shield Rune- the same which Genkaku hero of the City State had. And like Genkaku he appeared out of nowhere to fight off Highland. What he lacked in age and experience, he made up for by being a symbol of hope. With the Rune and the name Genkaku, he chased off Solon Jhee, which brought people to him.
I'll skip Suikoden III, because it's unique in it's situation.
The choice of Lazlo is a bit off at first. Because like Tir, he's someone that Lino had just recently met. However, Lino can't lead "The Rush" (if you go by Desmond's recommendation). By the time the ship sets out to sail, Lazlo has already risked his life to save the Kingdom of Obel. Furthermore, he sort of becomes the King's right hand man by the time they recruit Kika's pirates. Then when you get Elenor, everyone is already following Lazlo. The duel between Lazlo and Lino seems to be just for show. People seem to rally around Lazlo in order to prevent him from having to use the Rune of Punishment, so I suppose he makes a bit of sense.
Frey makes the most sense of them all. The brother of the queen, with no right to the throne. Those who rebel against the Godwin's needed someone to rally behind. With the Prince there, it gives credence to their cause. They're not rebelling against the Godwins (who appear as the legitimate rulers of the country), they're fighting for the Prince against the illegitimate rulers. With Sialeeds, it becomes another civil war between two would-be rulers. With Salum, it becomes faction vs faction. With the Prince though, it becomes a legitimate fight against those filthy godwin devils.
Riou made sense. Riou was the adopted grandson of Genkaku- hero of the City State. He also had on his hand the Bright Shield Rune- the same which Genkaku hero of the City State had. And like Genkaku he appeared out of nowhere to fight off Highland. What he lacked in age and experience, he made up for by being a symbol of hope. With the Rune and the name Genkaku, he chased off Solon Jhee, which brought people to him.
I'll skip Suikoden III, because it's unique in it's situation.
The choice of Lazlo is a bit off at first. Because like Tir, he's someone that Lino had just recently met. However, Lino can't lead "The Rush" (if you go by Desmond's recommendation). By the time the ship sets out to sail, Lazlo has already risked his life to save the Kingdom of Obel. Furthermore, he sort of becomes the King's right hand man by the time they recruit Kika's pirates. Then when you get Elenor, everyone is already following Lazlo. The duel between Lazlo and Lino seems to be just for show. People seem to rally around Lazlo in order to prevent him from having to use the Rune of Punishment, so I suppose he makes a bit of sense.
Frey makes the most sense of them all. The brother of the queen, with no right to the throne. Those who rebel against the Godwin's needed someone to rally behind. With the Prince there, it gives credence to their cause. They're not rebelling against the Godwins (who appear as the legitimate rulers of the country), they're fighting for the Prince against the illegitimate rulers. With Sialeeds, it becomes another civil war between two would-be rulers. With Salum, it becomes faction vs faction. With the Prince though, it becomes a legitimate fight against those filthy godwin devils.
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Sagiri
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Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
I believe that the prince and Lazlo are most qualified.
S1: Mathiu rejects leadership and Tir takes command. Mathiu is loyal and trusts him and makes personality assessments when he just met the guy.
S2: I haven't played it. Yet.
S3: Same.
S4. People say that Lazlo has a trait that draws people to him. He's already a target to the Kooluk. And it's not like he didn't prove his dedication at Obel, twice, at El-Eal, and he shows good leadership abilites when the escort ship is attacked by pirates and Snowe takes off.
S5: Prince. People know him. People like him. He doesn't send knights off to set fire to towns or ruthlessly slaughter military town citizens. He's a smart person and I can tell he doesn't like civil war any more than the other leaders do.
S1: Mathiu rejects leadership and Tir takes command. Mathiu is loyal and trusts him and makes personality assessments when he just met the guy.
S2: I haven't played it. Yet.
S3: Same.
S4. People say that Lazlo has a trait that draws people to him. He's already a target to the Kooluk. And it's not like he didn't prove his dedication at Obel, twice, at El-Eal, and he shows good leadership abilites when the escort ship is attacked by pirates and Snowe takes off.
S5: Prince. People know him. People like him. He doesn't send knights off to set fire to towns or ruthlessly slaughter military town citizens. He's a smart person and I can tell he doesn't like civil war any more than the other leaders do.
It's a pinky promise. If I break my promise you break my pinky.
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ThricebornPhoenix
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Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
Does he? All he really does before he gets the Bright Shield Rune is fight some soldiers and run away at the first chance (which is understandable). By the time Tir receives the Soul Eater from Ted, he's fought a couple of strong monsters and the Mt. Seifu bandits. I don't recall that much is said about the military training that either went through prior to the start of the games, but, considering Tir starts two years older in SI than Riou does in his game, I doubt that Riou had any more training than Tir.Quing wrote:Now, he does lack experience, but he still has more experience as a soldier than Tir does at the beginning of Suikoden.
What's the difference, really? Riou fled Highland and was given command of troops serving the City-States shortly afterward. As far as I can recall, no one really questioned his story. No one even seemed to think that he might hesitate to fight his own country.Genoh wrote:It seems like he only ended up on their side because he was kicked out of the Empire.
Riou made sense.
Tir, on the other hand, was known to be on the run from the Imperials (Victor had to save him), and was not in a position of leading foreign troops against his homeland. He had been exposed to the corruption of the empire shortly before that.
"Evil is always a distortion or an exaggeration of something that is good. People don't understand that now." - Gene Wolfe, an interview
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Sagiri
- Posts: 293
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Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
uh hey if you care?Lazlo also fought for the people and land that he was raised on
however his tendency to risk his own life by using the RoP is a big letdown
i mean, people put faith in your leadership
what good are these if your dead
Risking his own life means he would do practically anything for his people, even if it means sacrificing himself. Hell, maybe he would give himself to the Kooluk if thats what it took to keep them out of the island nations (however, there are some people who would make him try to change his mind). The main protagonists are all so selfless, sad little bastards.
It's a pinky promise. If I break my promise you break my pinky.
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Blutiger Engel
- Posts: 328
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Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
I'd have to agree with that. I personally wouldn't want to follow a leader who wasn't willing to fight with his soldiers and lay his own life on the line the way he expects his followers to.Sagiri wrote:
uh hey if you care?
Risking his own life means he would do practically anything for his people, even if it means sacrificing himself. Hell, maybe he would give himself to the Kooluk if thats what it took to keep them out of the island nations (however, there are some people who would make him try to change his mind). The main protagonists are all so selfless, sad little bastards.
Ever have a bad boss/manager that just sat on his ass barking orders all day, without doing any work or even having any knowledge of the work he expected the employees to perform? I'd be kinda like that, I suppose, though with lives on the line.
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Sagiri
- Posts: 293
- Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:27 am
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Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
Ooh really? You must be sort of like Euram or something. Off topic.
I'm sorry...
Anyway, pretty much all the leaders are qualified if the people support them and see their dedication. If they do a good job without a lot of casualties, what's the problem?
I'm sorry...
Anyway, pretty much all the leaders are qualified if the people support them and see their dedication. If they do a good job without a lot of casualties, what's the problem?
It's a pinky promise. If I break my promise you break my pinky.
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Blutiger Engel
- Posts: 328
- Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:41 pm
Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
Like Euram? How so?Sagiri wrote:Ooh really? You must be sort of like Euram or something. Off topic.
I'm sorry...
Anyway, pretty much all the leaders are qualified if the people support them and see their dedication. If they do a good job without a lot of casualties, what's the problem?
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blah1017
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:08 pm
Re: fitting leaders from I-V? spoilers of course
I thought they were all pretty fitting.
The biggest question for me arises in Suikoden 3. I really see Chris as the best leader of the army.
Hugo is a hot headed kid with a chip on his shoulder, and Geddoe, while experienced and skilled, seems more suited to manage his own little mercenary troupe. Chris was the only one who really seemed suited to lead the army.
The biggest question for me arises in Suikoden 3. I really see Chris as the best leader of the army.
Hugo is a hot headed kid with a chip on his shoulder, and Geddoe, while experienced and skilled, seems more suited to manage his own little mercenary troupe. Chris was the only one who really seemed suited to lead the army.