Why some stars....?

[Sasarai_valixz]

Wow guys you are all terrific in this thing.
I really wanna know some requirements for people to be positioned in a star. I mean why must he here? why must she here?
Like Sonya, Katarina, and Bernadette in that star because they are all good navy general.

Then I wanna ask again about
Gremio-Sierra-Yuiri-Aldo-Lyon

Who is the person whose Sierra protects?

When I see Pesmerga's star
Pesmerga-Pesmerga-Lucia-Selma-Nakula

It seems like these people are people chasing/searching someone,
i.e Pesemerga searches Yuber
Lucia? her husband?
Selma chases after Lazlo which steal the elf-potion
Nakula searches Sagiri which killed his father
am I correct?

And 'bout
Kasim-Hauser-Yuber-???-???
What are they similiarities??

And Patapi, could ya include the star requirements?? (he he he but I really really wanna know bout this from the original story too)

THX

[DeathQuaker]

Then I wanna ask again about
Gremio-Sierra-Yuiri-Aldo-Lyon

Who is the person whose Sierra protects?

In some ways, all of her fellow vampires, and the Blue Moon Rune. Also, perhaps Nash

They're all also fairly strong warriors.

When I see Pesmerga's star
Pesmerga-Pesmerga-Lucia-Selma-Nakula

It seems like these people are people chasing/searching someone,
i.e Pesemerga searches Yuber
Lucia? her husband?
Selma chases after Lazlo which steal the elf-potion
Nakula searches Sagiri which killed her father
am I correct?

Ooh, neat. I couldn't see the connection beyond being strong battle warriors, and to some extent representing a certain group/faction (Lucia reps Karaya, Selma the Na Nal Elves, and Nakula Armes, but Pesmerga is a loner). That's a really good point.

Lucia doesn't seem in search of anyone in III, though in II (where she was not Riou's SOD) she was certainly constantly chasing down the hero to fight him. In III, perhaps she is "in search of" peace?

And 'bout
Kasim-Hauser-Yuber-???-???
What are they similiarities??

They're all generals/major unit leaders.

And Patapi, could yes include the star requirements?? (he he he but I really really wanna know bout this from the original story too)

THX

Yeah, I'm curious too.

[patapi]

In the list I compiled, I include the names of the original stars, but not having any idea of who they are, I didn't include how the Suikoden characters relate. It basically lists the Water Margin characters, the RPG characters, and then my opinion/analysis of how the the characters are related.

Question (especially to you, Patapi, as wise person and board mod): I would like to post the list I compiled at some point. Would you (or someone else knowledgeable of the Water Margin novel) be interested in reviewing it first to compare the characters to the original, or should I just post it up here and let people chip in as they well?

IMO, sharing it here would be the better. At least it'd be a group effort, if everyone could review the list together.

The list is comprehensive of all the SODs in the RPGs. I was kind of wanting to put it in "Character Analysis/Theories" but as of now I think since it includes Suiko V characters, it would have to be here, right? (Unless I wait, which is what I was originally going to do, but since it was brought up... I'm tempted to post it now.)

Yes, S5 spoilers go here. In fact, posting them in this topic might be best, if it doesn't justify having a separate topic for the same discussion. I recommend posting in snippets though, instead of the entire list all at once.

I really wanna know some requirements for people to be positioned in a star. I mean why must he here? why must she here?

Unfortunately, it won't be easy. Only select few of the stars have definite requirements, like Tenkai or Tenki. Even for Tenki, I know there are a few fans out there who have problems with Caesar and Elenor being placed under it, which may or may not make this even more difficult.

As for most of the lesser stars, Konami seems to have a habit of taking certain traits of their original owner and amplify it in their new character to justify giving the stars to them. i.e. How Zen fit the gardening character trait, while Kevin took up the role as the husband owner of a meat bun shop.

Not to mention that a few stars have very few differentiating traits in the original legend, yet Konami has decidedly built up their own version of correlation as the series grows, which would put the requirements under a different light.

It makes more sense to concentrate on how the currently known star owners are linked together, then to attempt defining the criteria how future characters should fit under the stars. Of course, it doesn't hurt to do the latter as well, but I can guarantee you that it won't be 100% accurate given Konami's track record.

Then I wanna ask again about
Gremio-Sierra-Yuiri-Aldo-Lyon

Who is the person whose Sierra protects?

In some ways, all of her fellow vampires, and the [Moon Rune]. Also, perhaps Nash

They're all also fairly strong warriors.

Hua Rong got his nickname for being extremely skilled in archery. He was also both a high-ranking general in Song Jiang's group, as well as a very close friend of him. Gremio and Lyon took up the "a very close friend" role, while Yuiri and Aldo specialised in bow and arrows. Sierra, I don't know.

But the "protector" role isn't too far off, based on this list.

When I see Pesmerga's star
Pesmerga-Pesmerga-Lucia-Selma-Nakula

It seems like these people are people chasing/searching someone,
i.e Pesemerga searches Yuber
Lucia? her husband?
Selma chases after Lazlo which steal the elf-potion
Nakula searches Sagiri which killed her father
am I correct?

Ooh, neat. I couldn't see the connection beyond being strong battle warriors, and to some extent representing a certain group/faction (Lucia reps Karaya, Selma the Na Nal Elves, and Nakula Armes, but Pesmerga is a loner). That's a really good point.

Lucia doesn't seem in search of anyone in III, though in II (where she was not Riou's SOD) she was certainly constantly chasing down the hero to fight him. In III, perhaps she is "in search of" peace?

Huyuan Zhuo. Led the armoured cavalry, and wielded a pair of steel rods. He also led the first all-out attack on Mt Liang bandits for the Emperor, with the two Maximillian stars joining him for that attack. He proved to be a very formidable opponent winning many battles, not until the bandits sought for Xu Ning's aid to counter the armoured cavalry's attack. (It's funny how the Fire Spears was used correctly for this kind of plot in S1, but Suikoden's Xu Ning figure didn't enter the story until S2: Tsai.)

I suppose the strong enemy type fits Lucia and Selma best, in terms of story roles. Nakula was obviously a very fierce enemy of the Nether Gate, I suppose. No idea why Pesmerga is there.

It kinda makes me wonder if Teo would have gotten this star, if it was possible to get him to join you. Huyuan Zhuo's story was literally his. Damn that Pesmerga.

And 'bout
Kasim-Hauser-Yuber-???-???
What are they similiarities??

They're all generals/major unit leaders.

Kasim-Hauser-Yuber-Izak-Galleon, you mean.

Lin Chong. Arguably the most skilled warrior in your army (Kasim Hazil and, I guess, Yuber for the Destoyers). His close connection with Lu Zhishen never really made into the game, until S5 where a definite working relationship was finally defined between Galleon and Kyle. Hauser's connection as an important general was minimal, and Izak's is inconclusive. Sad to say, but there are definitely more to Lin Chong's character that have yet to be captured by the series. He is one of the most celebrated heroes among the 108 bandits, period.

[Sasarai_valixz]

patapi, you didi it very well for many times, I thanked you.
Luv ur answers.

OK, seems I have more questions for you guys.

How 'bout
1. Cleo-Feather/Siegfried-Juan-Paula-Dinn??
2. Pahn-Feather/Abizboah-Cecile-Jewel-Shoon??
3. Kwanda-Kiba-Shiba-Axel-Boz??
4. Kreutz-Jess-Fubar-Helga-Ax?? (seems so confusing...)

And about Flik's star,
What's the legend about it?? I mean must it be a single-sworded warrior??

U know I'm trying to make a sort of fanfic you see.
THX

[patapi]

1. Cleo-Feather/Siegfried-Juan-Paula-Dinn??
2. Pahn-Feather/Abizboah-Cecile-Jewel-Shoon??

Two good friends, Zhu Tong and Lei Heng. Both started out as government officers, and were sent to hunt dow Chao Gai and his companions after the robbery, but they deliberately devised a plan to let them go out of Zhu's respect for the bandit leader.

Later, Lei would commit a crime of murder, and Zhu would serve as the escort to prison. But Lei was let go. Lei then proceeded to join the bandits. Zhu was exiled afterwards, but not long before he would also be persuaded to join his friend through some bloody scheme. They both then went on to serve as important generals among the bandits.

Cleo-Pahn and Paula-Jewel fit this theme nicely. Juan-Cecile is a bit dodgy, but it seems they also inherit the "generals-with-personal-ties-to-Tenkai" aspect of the pair just fine. The animal types are far too random to really matter, and the strongest hint of resemblance I got out of Dinn-Shoon is that Shoon was a martial artist much like Pahn.

3. Kwanda-Kiba-Shiba-Axel-Boz??

Qin Ming. A brave yet temperamental general who fought head-on with Hua Rong (Gremio's star) with equal strength, before falling to the latter's false retreat scheme. He refused to join the bandits at first, but Song Jiang's bloody plans ensured him switching sides soon enough.

From this series' POV, it seems to me that this star joined a few others as the de facto Generals' slots on the Stone Tablet. Kwanda, Kiba and Boz were awesome generals, with emphasis on defense. Kiba also get extra points for joining you as a result of falling into a trap set up by your side, albeit not quite the same as the original tale.

Axel was temperamental, and became the chief of Na-Nal Island's human side after the war. Qualified enough as a general, I suppose? Shiba wasn't a general.

4. Kreutz-Jess-Fubar-Helga-Ax?? (seems so confusing...)

Suo Chao, an exceptionally courageous general, who fought at equal footing against a number of Song Jiang's generals prior to his switching sides.

Kreutz fit this criterion somewhat, due to his history with Humphrey. The others seems random. Arguably Fubar and Ax might be related as mounts to another character in your army. Helga was quite a figher herself, with strength issues. Jess is odd. Nonetheless, I'm rather disappointed that this Ten- star ended up being given to some of these minor characters, when the original owner was a prominent cavalry general among the 108 bandits.

And about Flik's star,
What's the legend about it?? I mean must it be a single-sworded warrior??

For reference: Flik-Edge-Snowe-Belcoot

Blue Faced Beast, Yang Zhi. Now you know where Flik got his signature colour from. Also, it's worth noting that the same colour was used for Belcoot's costume.

While his battle prowess was well recognised, Yang also has a history of failing his tasks, which led him to changing masters a few times in the story. Snowe seems to have inherited this. Belcoot also had his own share of failure stories, what's with being a lousy gladiators during his early years, as well as losing against Childerich when he came back and aimed to become the next champion. (I know it wasn't his fault, but the point still stands.)

Edge's relevance to this star seems to have been only due to his connections with Flik (and, to some extent, Viktor). It might also be worth noting that Belcoot also inherited a part of Kika (the Falcon Rune, and she also had Viktor's star), while being placed under this star.

Yang is supposed to own some kind of sword as part of his character, so that might have affected the choice of weapon for the characters under this star. But I wouldn't bet on it. Flik had a sword due to the Warrior's Village tradition. Edge wielded the Star Dragon Sword. Snowe's sword was a standard among the Razril knights. The Falcon sword style required that Belcoot used a sword. Etc, etc.

[xXSqualleoNXx]

3. Kwanda-Kiba-Shiba-Axel-Boz??

Qin Ming. A brave yet temperamental general who fought head-on with Hua Rong (Gremio's star) with equal strength, before falling to the latter's false retreat scheme. He refused to join the bandits at first, but Song Jiang's bloody plans ensured him switching sides soon enough.

From this series' POV, it seems to me that this star joined a few others as the de facto Generals' slots on the Stone Tablet. Kwanda, Kiba and Boz were awesome generals, with emphasis on defense. Kiba also get extra points for joining you as a result of falling into a trap set up by your side, albeit not quite the same as the original tale.

Axel was temperamental, and became the chief of Na-Nal Island's human side after the war. Qualified enough as a general, I suppose? Shiba wasn't a general.

Shiba was sort of a general. He was one of the top three warriors in the Lizard's Clan forces. Considering he and Bazba were right under Dupa in terms of leadership, I'd say he could be considered a general. It's just Lizards didn't outright named their military leaders.

[Sasarai_valixz]

Patapi, your answers are good, I really really really like it.
OK, another challenge for everybuddy
1. Kage-Georg-Aila-Keane-Georg?? Coolness??
2. Valeria-Valeria/Tomo-Hugo-Keneth-Zegai??
3. Viktor-Viktor-Sgt. Jordy-Kika-Kyle?? Another Tenkai close fiend??
4. Kirkis-Killey?-Chris-Gretchen (WTH?)-Killey??

Well These are sort of confusing, yet I will made my own conclusion bout this stars when it's all finished.

THX

[patapi]

Shiba was sort of a general. He was one of the top three warriors in the Lizard's Clan forces. Considering he and Bazba were right under Dupa in terms of leadership, I'd say he could be considered a general. It's just Lizards didn't outright named their military leaders.

To some extent, I suppose that's true. But like Bazba, I see him more of a lieutenant serving under Dupa. Definitely nowhere near Kwanda, Kiba or Boz; who were independent generals in their own right.

Like how Teo was a general, but not Alen or Grenseal. Or, how Craig was a general, but not Rahal or Roog. I also based this judgment upon the arrangement of Story VIPs in S3's war battles, where Shiba does not lead a unit.