I did not expect my post to be seen as "support" for snakebite105's argument. Actually I disagree with him. I don't think there is enough evidence, just because the 108 SoDs win every time we play a Suikoden, that the 108 SoDs always win. That's only 5 wars out of how many there probably are in Suikoden's timeline, and who knows if 108 SoDs appeared in other wars and lost?
I'm not counting Suikoden Tierkreis, because the world is different and it's obvious that the Hero's world didn't have a precedent of SoDs, and they were also battling a force that is more akin to a God than just another country. I don't think snakebite had Suikoden Tierkreis in mind when he made his argument.
By the way I'm done with this discussion. I just wanted to clarify my position.
Stars of Destiny always win
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JanusThePaladin
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Re: Stars of Destiny always win
Dont worry bud, the only person who could possibly think that helped Snakey's argument is Snakey himself.
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Jeremiah Ecks
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Re: Stars of Destiny always win
Janus' point is that the 108 stars of destiny do not always win. That's brilliant and factual.
Okay, maybe that just goes for 'other' universes? Maybe the PS Series games, they always win? Okay, maybe so, maybe no, but that's a massive assumption from silence.
Interestingly... just a question, why do you assume the Falenan army 'need' to have known about the Stars of Destiny? Zerase wasn't exactly trusted, nor was Jeane. Their blatherings could have been seen as ultimately irrelevant. Leknaat appearing out of nowhere and doing her thang? No offence, but when you have the equally enigamtic Zerase appearing through walls, disappearing when you're not looking, and doing all sorts of other things freaking out the rest of the army, why should anybody pay any attention to her?
The Liberation Army? Sure, Tir seemed to be in on what was happening, and I trust maybe some of the others were (Luc, Fukien, Mathiu?) but others like Viktor and Flik I guess would have just seen it to be superstition and ignored it. You want a parallel? Han Solo in Star Wars. He knows the Force exists but does he have a care? Does he believe that the Force guides his destiny? Do we really know for sure?
Based off what 'enemies' know? Barbarosa may have indeed known about the SoD, but maybe his heart wasn't in the war. His mindset is rather confused at the end of the war - maybe he deliberately loses. Maybe Windy should know, but it's not like she's trying to win the war as much as attain the Soul Eater. And none of the other Generals would know or pay much attention. Gizel and Marcel Godwin wouldn't have cared - they had no reference point for what the SoDs meant (just as neither did Graham Cray and Troy). The battle with the Island Nations was so old that the stories of it had already become the type of myth and legend...
This leaves us Luc and the Highlanders.
Luca Blight, do you really think a guy that bat-nuts crazy would give a care? Leon Silverberg - maybe he would care if he understood the prophecy but he is never seen in any single scene where Leknaat, Fukien, Tir or anybody else mention the Stars of Destiny. Even though he possesses the ability to summon Yuber, it could be that a man as pragmatic as Leon would view the mages as 'gimmicky' and never even abstain Luc's rooms where the Tablet was contained. And none of the other guys would care or know - Cunningham, the ill-fated idiot of Solon Jhee, and Seed and Culgan are too 'below' to call any significant shots. Rowd is a fool. That leaves Jowy and Jillia. Jillia isn't militaristic so where would she get the intelligence to give away the SoD's? And Jowy? Who knows what Jowy is trying to achieve?
Leaving Luc. If any of the enemies knew of the SoD's at all, or it would have mattered, it would be Luc. And in this case, Luc is a Star of Destiny. Luc has no concept of this being a 'SoD's vs. others' battle, because it frankly isn't. This is a different fight to do with different destinies; more grayer, more confused. So even Luc with his knowledge may not know that this is that type of fight repeated again.
So all in all, I fail to see how any enemy could have this mysterious information that you claim. Even if they possessed it, not one of them - possibly except Jowy - would have had the werewithal to do something with it. All of the others were either crazy, with murky motives, deliberately uninterested or were part of it already.
-Jeremiah Ecks,
who feels proud of this post.
Okay, maybe that just goes for 'other' universes? Maybe the PS Series games, they always win? Okay, maybe so, maybe no, but that's a massive assumption from silence.
Interestingly... just a question, why do you assume the Falenan army 'need' to have known about the Stars of Destiny? Zerase wasn't exactly trusted, nor was Jeane. Their blatherings could have been seen as ultimately irrelevant. Leknaat appearing out of nowhere and doing her thang? No offence, but when you have the equally enigamtic Zerase appearing through walls, disappearing when you're not looking, and doing all sorts of other things freaking out the rest of the army, why should anybody pay any attention to her?
The Liberation Army? Sure, Tir seemed to be in on what was happening, and I trust maybe some of the others were (Luc, Fukien, Mathiu?) but others like Viktor and Flik I guess would have just seen it to be superstition and ignored it. You want a parallel? Han Solo in Star Wars. He knows the Force exists but does he have a care? Does he believe that the Force guides his destiny? Do we really know for sure?
Based off what 'enemies' know? Barbarosa may have indeed known about the SoD, but maybe his heart wasn't in the war. His mindset is rather confused at the end of the war - maybe he deliberately loses. Maybe Windy should know, but it's not like she's trying to win the war as much as attain the Soul Eater. And none of the other Generals would know or pay much attention. Gizel and Marcel Godwin wouldn't have cared - they had no reference point for what the SoDs meant (just as neither did Graham Cray and Troy). The battle with the Island Nations was so old that the stories of it had already become the type of myth and legend...
This leaves us Luc and the Highlanders.
Luca Blight, do you really think a guy that bat-nuts crazy would give a care? Leon Silverberg - maybe he would care if he understood the prophecy but he is never seen in any single scene where Leknaat, Fukien, Tir or anybody else mention the Stars of Destiny. Even though he possesses the ability to summon Yuber, it could be that a man as pragmatic as Leon would view the mages as 'gimmicky' and never even abstain Luc's rooms where the Tablet was contained. And none of the other guys would care or know - Cunningham, the ill-fated idiot of Solon Jhee, and Seed and Culgan are too 'below' to call any significant shots. Rowd is a fool. That leaves Jowy and Jillia. Jillia isn't militaristic so where would she get the intelligence to give away the SoD's? And Jowy? Who knows what Jowy is trying to achieve?
Leaving Luc. If any of the enemies knew of the SoD's at all, or it would have mattered, it would be Luc. And in this case, Luc is a Star of Destiny. Luc has no concept of this being a 'SoD's vs. others' battle, because it frankly isn't. This is a different fight to do with different destinies; more grayer, more confused. So even Luc with his knowledge may not know that this is that type of fight repeated again.
So all in all, I fail to see how any enemy could have this mysterious information that you claim. Even if they possessed it, not one of them - possibly except Jowy - would have had the werewithal to do something with it. All of the others were either crazy, with murky motives, deliberately uninterested or were part of it already.
-Jeremiah Ecks,
who feels proud of this post.
"Everything is something, but nothing is everything."