[FAQ] Devil's Doll (Character Discussion: Mel)

[highwind44029]

Devil's Doll Rune - equipped to Mel permanently
Description: Fire MGC. 300DMG to 1 foe. 1/battle.

Does Fire Magic skill help rune damage? I found out that Mel was a fast-learner (20/40/65/120/190) at Fire Magic and I was wondering if I should get this skill.

[thcrock]

correction: NO, Fire Magic skill does not affect damage from Devil's Doll - read below.

[highwind44029]

OK, thank you then. I got it and when I fought the Ghost Knight, she did about 1k of damage! Cool!!!

[KFCrispy]

hmmmmm old topic but i had just thought about this. does Fury/Warrior/Double-Strike affect Devil's Doll?
what about Wizard, Alert?

and Bright uses Spreading Flame. i suppose increasing his Fire magic will increase damage, and the asme rules for Devil's Doll will apply to Spreading Flame...

[KFCrispy]

i did some testing with Mel in the underground part of HQ. extremely varied results.

fire D, double-strike, max swing
elf 2347 2234
svire 1483 2268 2383
siren 1680

fire D, no rune boost, max swing
elf 926 1180
svire 808
siren 816
boss 728

fire D, battle oath, max swing
svire 556 - ran long distance
elf 1010

fire D , alert, max swing
siren 1003

fire D double-strike fury max swing
svire 1920 1159

so in the beginning it seemed Double-Strike has an effect and the magic boosts (Battle Oath, Alert) don't affect the attack.
Swing possibly has an effect, so if she has to run a long distance, it would reduce the swings and perhaps reduce the damage as a result.
but with my Double-Strike + Fury setup, the 1920 dmg seemed to show that both Double-Strike and berserk were having an effect, but the second time i tried it, i got an extremely low number, suggesting they may have no effect whatsoever.

[KFCrispy]

i tried Mel with A+ in Fire and physical damage runes, it was doing pretty much the same damage as before, ~800-1100.
i'm pretty confident now that the damage from Devil's Doll is ONLY dependent physical damage attributes.

the half damage (and sometimes the rare 1 dmg) are due to the enemy blocking.... after giving her the Accuracy skill, it happened less. but her Accuracy skill is not very good.. i think it maxes at B.

since she has a permanent Blue Ribbon, she is barely hit. so i figure to maximize her offensive potential, go with Swing, Accuracy, and Damage for skills, and a Double-Strike. you can work with her natural S in Lightning magic or just further increase her physical attacks afterwards.

[VinceValentine]

So that means the elemental magic rings don't help? I'd think fire magic rings would if its fire damage but if its more based on physical damage then maybe a belt of strength would be more effective and make the damage a more consistant number, but i'm kind of on the up and down about that... never really tested it.

Oh, and i did read the link obviously but some people said fire rings increased the damage and others said they didn't so i don't know which to take into account, hence why i'm asking the above question.

[highwind44029]

Fire Magic Ring helps increase the Fire Magic skill, which increases fire magic damage and decrease chanting time.

And hey, cool, I actually have a thread pinned.

[Punkaiser]

Today ive finished an official playthrough using Mel. And she definitely surprises me one hella game with her Devil Doll. I was always thinking that Augustine should be the top single damage dealer, but now the game shows me that Mel is superior. Tested damage 3 times on Wind rune incarnation:

- Augustine's redrose deals 4k-4.4k (lv67, weapon lv16, double trike rune, max skills,2xwhite brooches+power belt, juan+jefferson in pt)
- Mel inflicts 5.8k-6.2k (lv67, weapon lv16, fury+double strike, max skills but no Fire skill, 2x power belt, blood armor, juan+jefferson in pt)

Both don't have any combat title. I also tested with several other monsters, Mel always remains stronger. Anyone knows the formula for her Devil doll attack? How does the 300 fire damage get calculated with that fury+dbl strike+base attack. Its seriously acting like a x2 damage rune to me.

[eldrasidar]

i feel like you could figure that out easily enough by having mel make a regular attack against a particular enemy without having any runes equipped, then use the rune to make an attack against another enemy of the same type. that would tell you her base damage, then you could subtract out the actual bonus she gets from using the rune(devil's doll damage-regular damage= bonus). Then add a double strike rune and repeat. this should give you double the base damage on a regular attack, and then double the base damage plus the fire damage. do the same subtraction as before, and you'll get the bonus fire damage, which you can then compare with the fire damage bonus from before, and see if it is also doubled, or not. Either way, you'll then be able to easily enough figure out the formula for adding in a fury rune.

[Punkaiser]

I did a test to see, that's why i think it is actually a x2 damage rune. Mel normally swing 5 times :
900 670 500 500 500 . When i use DD , sshe hits for roughly 6k(sometimes even 7k, might be one of the hits was a critical) much likely as double damage.
Could it be that the rune description is wrongly translated again?

[eldrasidar]

maybe, although poorly translated might be a better way of looking at it. If it added 300 damage per hit, it would add up to 1500 damage, which if that was subject to double strike and fury would become 4500 + 3000 base damage = 7500 total damage. however since that damage would be fire damage, it could go up or down depending on whether the attacked creature has a higher or lower resistance to fire damage, so that number could easily fluctuate between 6000 and 8000. That would give it the appearance of being similar to a x2 bonus. Of course, I have no idea if that's how it actually works.

[eldrasidar]

So I did a test of mel, at level 55 with level 16 weapon and only accuracy, swing, and holy dash as skills, and no runes equipped. against copper suns, I was dealing an average of 408 damage with 3 swings, or 1175 damage with devil's doll. Adding a double strike rune, I dealt an average of 843 damage with 3 swings, or 2293 with devil's doll. The average bonus I got from the devil's doll is x2.8 damage with some margin of error, in fact a fairly large one when using the devil's doll rune. without any other runes to boost it, I got damage ranging from 758 up to 1305. With double strike attached as well, my damage range became 1262-2493, becoming anywhere from a x1.5 modifier to a 3.1 modifier.

Also worth noting that Mel herself is a highly inconsistent character. She is one of a handful of characters who will have her magic backfire on her. when attacking physically, she can be wildly inconsistent as well, sometimes doing far better than she should, and other times far worse. So although she has a high amount of potential damage, she can also fall flat on her face.

[Punkaiser]

When Mel wasnt fully equipped, i notice that random range too, the DD was dealing 900-1500 but ever since i've fixed her set up, her DD constantly do at least 5.7k and 7.2k as maximum on Copper Sun(1 times 7k+, 3 times 5.7k and 6 times 6k+ during 10 tries). And I notice that Mel's normal swings are blocked or halved a lot even with her accuracy raised to maximum which lead me to think that those blocks get counted in DD damage which results in sudden low output. Did you raise enough speed for Mel to get her 5th swing? at lv 55 and no blood armor i dont think she could have that. If you could, please test on your save, with Mel max skills, lv 67(yes fortune trick) blood armor wield, dbl strike+fury. i wonder if we'd have same result. the lv 67 stuff +blood armor just to ensure her speed high enough get the 5th swing. I'm pretty sure at that moment, we won't have to face that crazy randomness, may be her tech+accuracy skill together become enough to overcome foes guard rate.

[eldrasidar]

didn't have the exact equipment to mimic you, but using the top commander appointment(+1 swing) I got my level 55 Mel to get 6 swings. I then equipped her with True Thunderbolt Leather, which gives +10% accuracy to go along with her B in accuracy for a total of +26% accuracy, which wasn't quite as good as blood armor in this case perhaps, but my tests show that it was good enough when boosting her SKL of 122. I didn't bother equipping fury or double strike runes, because it's clear to me from the last test, that they don't do anything in terms of consistency in damage.

Equipped as such, over ten uses of devil's doll, I averaged 1847 damage and the damage I dealt ranged from 1677-2114, which is exactly the size range as you got.

I then took off the true thunderbolt leather, thus reducing my accuracy by 10%, and over ten uses of Devil's Doll, I averaged 1738 damage, and that ranged from 1111-2208.

So I think it's safe to say that in order for Mel to do a more consistent amount of damage(not to mention a higher average of damage), more than anything else, she needs to boost her accuracy up a bit. As I just play tested her, her effective SKL was just over 150 when including the hidden bonus from the armor and accuracy skill. Naturally, she'll only be able to achieve this in the late 70's/early 80's. Otherwise she'll need to be given either blood armor, true thunderbolt leather, or the emperor appointment.

Should point out though, that even then, it's still feels like one of the wider ranges.