Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

If you are stuck in the Flame Champion War; or wish for more details on gameplay issues, ask your questions in this forum.
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SpaceCoyote
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Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:13 pm

Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by SpaceCoyote »

Hey Everyone,

I've gotten a lot of information from this website and figured it was time to join up myself. If anyone is interested, I'll be doing Suikoden 3 Speed Runs starting this Saturday, and on most subsequent weekends until I'm finished broadcasting what I have lined up. There will be Any% runs for each Flame Champion, a 108* Run, and some other content as well. If anyone is interested in that type of stuff, feel free to stop in and check it out (Twitch ID is SpaceCoyote).

Also, after putting this all together and spending a lot of time with this game, I'm still unsure of a few things. Perhaps someone here may know the answers to the following questions, most of which have to do with War Battles:

1. For War Battles, in regards to 'Cover' support, what exactly does it do? I know it buffs up your team, but I'm looking for specific mechanics.
2. For War Battles, does anyone know how retreating is determined when your unit has more than one option to retreat to? I can't find anything on this at all. I notice when I'm attacked and retreat, sometimes the group will go east, and sometimes they will go south (when east and south are both current options).
3. For War Battles, I'm inclined to believe that passive skills do stack. But all I have are my own visual observations. I didn't know if anyone knew for sure. There are different descriptions for passive skills that refer to physical attack bonus' of only the unit vs the entire area, but as I've come to find out, not everything was translated correctly on localization, so I wasn't sure if both or either applied to all units sharing the current area.
4. For the final boss, does his current color mean anything at all? I'm guessing no, but can't say for sure. I thought it might be an indication of something or him telegraphing his attacks, but again I have no idea if it means anything at all.
5. I've checked out the various spreadsheets in stickied threads, but do we know the damage formula for sure? Or are we using S2's formula? If so, where are you guys factoring in the damage % bonus from skills? Basically, I'm looking for a definitive formula.

Thanks in advance. I don't expect anyone to know the answers to any of those, but it's just a few things I was curious about.
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gildedtalon
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by gildedtalon »

1.Cover buffs up our team? Never knew about that.

4. I just fought the final boss not too long ago. The boss' current color means he's immune to that element for that turn.
I wasted Hammer of Raijin for nothing lol.
My GameFAQs account now is SheenavsKilley
I already closed gildedtalon, my old account
SpaceCoyote
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by SpaceCoyote »

Interesting. I guess I've never been in a situation where I've tried to use anyone's rune that would correspond with the current color. Thanks.

Set a new record with the run this past weekend. Everything went pretty well. There will be more runs in the coming weekends.
SpaceCoyote
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by SpaceCoyote »

So I finished up with my Suikoden 3 Speed Run project with good results. New World Records in Any% and 108%, along with best times for other Flame Champion choices as well. Anyways, just to address the reply above regarding the final bosses color negating damage from that element. That is actually not the case. I just did Final Flame when he was red and was still able to do damage. In fact, it did more damage than usual ... so the possibility is that actually his current color may be identifying what he's weak to in that turn, but a lot more testing needs to be done on that for an official confirmation. Still looking for answers to my other original questions; so if anyone has any answers feel free to let me know. Thanks!
KFCrispy
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by KFCrispy »

I've never seen the Wind RIncar itself being immune to any element, though I really don't use Wind spells... but the Runes are always immune to their own elements.

Regarding Cover, I'm pretty sure it increases the Attack power of your team. I thought the game explains it, but probably not. I guess we don't have a post here about all of the strategy battle skills :(
SpaceCoyote
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by SpaceCoyote »

Yea, I looked through all the threads, nothing specific about war battle stuff. Cover definitely ups your offense for sure. You can tell the difference between when you attack on offense with cover, and retaliating with attack during the enemy turn (when cover does not activate). I was just hoping there was a definitive % increase out there that I could go off of. I'm guessing each Cover adds a certain %, but can't say for sure. It would be helpful to micro manage your party setups if you knew exact numbers; though I don't think I'll ever go that far in to this.

As for the Wind Dragon, I played around with it some more, I'm inclined to think that his current color opens him up to 50% more damage if you attack with that element. Hugo would normally do around 1000 with Final Flame in my speedrun setting; but that consistently goes up to around 1500 if he is red.

The most annoying question (to me anyways) remains unanswered. Wish I knew why sometimes a group retreats in one direction and other times the other direction when there are two area options to retreat to. Probably just random though.

Anyways, thanks for the reply KFCrispy, much appreciated. I'll do a run through Thomas' chapters in the near future the next time I have a free weekend if anyone's interested. I may do more 108% runs as well, as there were some bonehead mistakes in my Hugo run. In the meantime though, I'll start working on Tactics.
SpaceCoyote
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by SpaceCoyote »

I'll be back at it this weekend along with other future weekends to finish up this project. On deck are the Chris 108 Star, Hugo 108 Star, Luc's Chapter, Thomas' Chapters, and an All Chapters run. Feel free to come hang out and help me stay awake.
SpaceCoyote
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by SpaceCoyote »

So I learned something the hard way a few weeks ago. On the PS3 PSN version, 614 didn't cut it for recruiting Emily. I went back and did some more testing after the fact and it turns out that 630 is the number you need. I'm wondering if this is exclusive to the PS3 PSN version or not, so if anyone wants to dust off their PS2 and give it a shot let me know. This was with Chris as the Flame Champion btw.

Also, the All Chapters speedrun will be going all day tomorrow. I'm estimating 17 hours. Feel free to come by and help me stay awake. Gonna be rough, and most certainly, a huge mistake.
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Pyriel
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by Pyriel »

I didn't get a chance to thank you for an entertaining stream since I left to get some water, and the stream had changed to a new Samurai Showdown or something when I got back. Anyway, it was a fun run to watch, and congrats on getting through it mostly unscathed.
SpaceCoyote
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by SpaceCoyote »

No problem! I was happy to do it and glad I was able to finish it ... so I never have to do it ever again. The real MVP's though were everyone who watched and chatted along the way, I couldn't have stayed awake that long without everyone's help. The goal was to finish in under 17 hours and we got it done, so I don't really have anything substantial to complain about. For a game that currently has no manipulation tactics available to sway things in your favor, it went pretty well all things considered. The Kabu showdown with Mike in particular was pretty intense. There were also plenty of non game related highlights as well; my favorite of course was seeing Sebastian get coined with the new name 'Fat Mozart.'

Next up is Suikoden Tactics. Though it will be a while before I have a run ready to display. Due to the nature of how tactics games work, there's an almost infinite number of possible ways to approach it. I may boot up and do other Suikoden speedruns in the meantime, using routes already established by other runners.
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Pyriel
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by Pyriel »

Yeah, "wily" is my Twitch handle. I was online most of the day, though in and out quite a bit between chores and phone calls.

This game has a special place in my heart. Among other things, it was the first PS2 game I hacked when I decided to give it a try despite the lack of readily available tools. For years, whenever I learned something new about reverse-engineering, I'd eventually load up Suikoden III and see what I could do with it. It's probably been 10 years at least since I last played it. It was a pleasant surprise to realize how much it still lingers in the back of my mind. Like the first time you went into the castle library. Seeing the shot of dusty shelves and stacks with cobwebs in the foreground made me realize I still subconsciously drift back to Budehuc a little bit whenever I read a description of a castle or fortress that's rundown, but not quite ruined.
SpaceCoyote
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by SpaceCoyote »

Awesome, yeah I figured that was you. A true legend sticking around the entire time; much appreciated. There's a lot I like about this game as well, and even though it's not perfect, it brings back good memories. I started the project mostly because I wanted to take on a challenge that nobody else had done yet ... kinda put my stamp on it. That's the plan for Tactics as well. This website was invaluable when doing my research. I'll see you around I'm sure. Until then, cheers.
Antimatzist
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by Antimatzist »

Wait, 17 hours for the entire game? That is insane. Congrats!
SpaceCoyote
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by SpaceCoyote »

Yep, full game from the title screen all the way through the credits to Leknaat's last dialogue box. It includes recruiting all 108 characters as well as Thomas' chapters and Luc's chapter. Here's the link if anyone wants to check it out:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/610180094

There's all types of other runs that I did too (Any% for all Flame Champions, 108% for all Flame Champions, Thomas Only, Luc Only), but this is the one worth watching I'd say.
KFCrispy
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Re: Suikoden 3 Speed Runs (& Questions)

Post by KFCrispy »

I saw bits and pieces of your speedrun earlier this month. Great job!

Was there anything else you wanted to try to figure out? For this game, the damage formulas were figured out, if you were still curious.. it just might not all be in 1 place.
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